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General => Practical Knots => Topic started by: xarax on March 01, 2012, 08:11:39 PM

Title: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on March 01, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
The "TackleClamp" gripping hitch.

There are two ways we can enhance the effectiveness of a multi-wrap friction hitch, tied around a spar/pole, and used to withstand a lengthwise pull

1. Increase the number of wraps.
2. Increase the force with which those wraps nip the spar/pole.

Now, there are two ways we can achieve the 2.

A. Wrap the "under" wraps with other, "over" wraps - i.e. wraps that lie on an outer shell, on a second layer around the central core of the spar/pole.
B1. Increase the tensile force with which the ends of the wraps are being pulled , and,
B2. keep them under constant tension, so they nip the spare/pole at their core more forcefully.
 
B1. To pull the two ends of a rope segment more forcefully/effectively, we may use the "mechanical advantage" offered by a block-and-tackle rope mechanism. In fact, we do not even need the blocks/pulleys, because we can use bights formed on the ends of this segment (i.e, a bight-and-tackle rope mechanism).
B2. To secure the two ends of a rope segment that we want to keep under constant tension, we may drive them in between two interlinked opposed bights that are also kept under constant tension. The friction forces generated in the area in between the two tips of those bights from where ends pass through, are sufficient to not let them slip through.

The "TackleClamp hitch" is a multi-wrap friction hitch that incorporates both mechanisms, B1 and B2, in order to increase the force with which the wraps nip the spar/pole they are tied around. Thus, the total friction forces induced by this hitch on the spar/pole are greater than by the other known friction hitches.

It should be stressed that, in order a segment of rope can accumulate tensile forces and not run the danger to release them with a small displacement of its ends towards each other,
1. The rope segment should be sufficiently long. Most of the times, with commonly used spars/poles and ropes, this requirement means that we should use as many wraps as we can, within the limits imposed by practical considerations. Certainly, one wrap would not probably be enough, most of the times.
2. The material of the rope should be able to be elongated under tension as much as possible. Nylon is a material that can be elongated a lot, yet retain its tensile characteristics, and, moreover, not suffer from creep or fatigue.

   A slight modification that might be helpfull in some applications, is to let the "lower" end to pass through the "upper" bight once more, or vice versa. This is easily done, because those bights remain sufficiently wide open - as they already turn around one rope diameter, and their two legs remain parallel. By doing this, we have both standing ends pass through the same bight as they exit the knot s nub. I do not know which of the two alternatives ( i.e., to have them pass through the "higher" or the "lower" bight, at their last passage through them)  will pull the hitch LESS effectively along the spar/pole.

( I have listened  the song of the seductresses Sirens, and dared to place a name, as a label, for this hitch. ( Actually, this name was proposed by a friend of mine, who have tied the hitch...). I would be glad if there are any other proposals, which might be able to name this hitch even more descriptively.)
( I post here only the already published pictures. I plan to take new, better  pictures with some new material that I will put my hands on in the near future. Here I had tried to repeat, in other words, what was the "ratio" that drove me to this knot, so it does not look something "random", that had suddently fell from the sky...Knots are just rope mechanisms, there is nothing magical in the conception of their structure.)

   P.S. I have just remembered a well known tool that is used on tubes and pipes, and which works in a very similar way the TackleClamp gripping hitch works : Not by increasing the contact area between the rope and the spar/pole ( as it is often done, by increasing the number of the wraps ), but by increasing the tension of the wraped rope segment. It is called "strap wrench", and one can see many variations of it with the help of Google Images. The same tool is used to replace spin-on oil filters in cars, and it is called  "oil filter wrench" (strap type). The TackleClamp hitch is nothing but a rope-made, multi-strap "strap wrench" - where the mechanism to pre-tension the straps is not a lever mechanism, but a bight-and-tackle rope mechanism.
Title: How to tie the TackleClamp gripping hitch. (1)
Post by: xarax on March 02, 2012, 04:52:27 PM
  How to tie the TackleClamp gripping hitch.

  The important thing to remember, is to pull the two ends and tighten the whole knot in two stages. At the first stage, the two bights should better be at diametrically spaced positions, as shown in picture/step 3. At this first  stage, we do not have to pull the ends very forcefully. At the second stage, shown at step/picture 6, it is better if we pull the ends with all the power the morning breakfast had offered to us - and it pays if we are able to place our feet against the spar/pole, if possible, so we use the whole body power to tighten the knot. ( See picture 6b)( We can do it even if we are not row-men or weight-lifters, of course...)
    Another thing I should perhaps mention, is that the step shown at pictures 7 and 8 might not be necessary. In this, we pass the one, "upper" end through the other,  "lower" bight once more, ( or vice versa), so that both ends exit from the same point of the knot, and are oriented towards the same direction. We can then use the one end that has passed through the same bight twice - or we can use both ends. I believe that it is not necessary to connect them further, with another knot.
   I dare to say that this is the tightest gripping hitch able to withstand a lengthwise pull we know till now. Of course, I am sure that nobody in this forum will accept  this - as it is always the case with knot tyers - for complex reasons, well beyond the simple field of knotting  :). However, I am also sure that it is a good thing this knot has been revealed to us - even with a fifty or a hundred years delay- and it will be presumably there, to common view, the next half century. The next generation of knot tyers will accept it, that is also for sure... :)
Title: How to tie the TackleClamp gripping hitch. (2)
Post by: xarax on March 02, 2012, 04:54:13 PM
How to tie the TackleClamp gripping hitch. (2)
Title: How to tie the TackleClamp gripping hitch. (3)
Post by: xarax on March 02, 2012, 04:56:34 PM
How to tie the TackleClamp gripping hitch. (3)

(The step shown in the pictures 7 and 8 might not be nessesary. Read the note in the first post of this series.)
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: richardpeterson on March 04, 2012, 03:40:58 AM
I am able to tighten this down to an absurd degree.

I was tightening this down on a highlighter marker with some small cord (not using the suggested gloves and boots...), and I had to stop for fear of bursting the marker.

This seems to work great as a binding knot in some instances (minus a few wraps, of course). It does impart a twist to whatever it is being tightened around. If it's a pole, that isn't a problem. If it is a bundle of poles, it might be hard to tighten without the poles splaying out and twisting. It doesn't stay tight over a concave surface unless finished with a bend.

It takes a bit of trial and error to know where to start out the bights so that things tighten into place.

It doesn't look much like the kind of structure I generally expect to load lengthwise. However, by keeping the loaded rope so far from the surface of the pole, this knot must impart a good deal of torque, which of course must help.

The first part reminds me a bit of the scaffold board hitch used to sling a plank (ABOK #2159, if I'm not mistaken. Whichever is based on the clove hitch, not the marlinspike hitch).

Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on March 04, 2012, 05:12:28 AM
  Thank you, Richard,

minus a few wraps
It doesn't stay tight over a concave surface unless finished with a bend.

   This knot is designed to be a hitch able to withstand a lengthwise pull. I have seen that the possibility of pre-tightening/pre-stressing the multiple wraps on any of the known multi-coil friction hitches had a great beneficial impact upon the gripping power of it.  So, the starting point of the design of this knot was there, the multi-coil friction hitches. That was the origin and the purpose of the many wraps. ( I was trying it as a gripping hitch tied around a stainless steel pole, with some olive oil or butter on it... :)) Now, it can also used as a binder of many objects, of course, but this is not a difficult task for a knot...We have many other knots capable to deal with this relatively "easy" problem, in a quite satisfactory way.
   So, if this knot is not loaded, and if it is not loaded lengthwise, it is not supposed to stay tight - unless, as you have noticed, it is secured further with another knot, be it a bend, some half hitches or whatever. The thing I do not yet know is if the final tuck of the one end, shown at pictures 7 and 8, is really necessary...I do not believe that loading it from the one or both ends will really make any significant difference - but I have shown it at the pictures 7 and 8 as loaded from the "lower" end (or from both ends) nevertheless - with the "higher"driven through the lower bight for the second time -, just because this is how most friction hitches are usually loaded.

It takes a bit of trial and error to know where to start out the bights so that things tighten into place.

   Right ! That is why I propose the diametrically placed bights, which turns to be a a good starting point, for the diameters and the number of wraps shown in the pictures - or any other similar combination. The fact that we do not want, is to start tightening the bights when they are too close, so they run the danger to touch each other before the end of the pre-tightening/pre-stressing process. As a rule of thumb, the diametrically opposed bights is something that seems to work in most of the cases I tried, and it is an easily remembered and inspected position. With many more wraps, and nylon ropes, we will need an even greater distance between the bights, so they will be allowed to rreach the end of their route during the pre-tensioning/pre-stressing stage without getting too close and touch each other.

It doesn't look much like the kind of structure I generally expect to load lengthwise.

I know that most people will not believe or accept it, but it is the tightest gripping hitch able to withstand a lengthwise pull we know - far better than any other I have known and tried till now. You will be surprised by its efficiency, believe me !  :)

   Its "secret" is not the distance of the pivot point from the axis of the pole - it is the possibility of the pre-tightening/pre-stressing of the ends of the coil 'tube" - combined with the mechanical advantage that enhances the force we are able to apply to achieve it, and the self-locking mechanism. It is the tightest member of new class of gripping hitches - and I do not doubt that another knot tyer will be able to discover another knot that that uses the same mechanosms - perhaps even simpler and more powerful. 
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: Sweeney on March 04, 2012, 04:03:58 PM
I know that most people will not believe or accept it, but it is the tightest gripping hitch able to withstand a lengthwise pull we know - far better than any other I have known and tried till now. You will be surprised by its efficiency, believe me !  :)

It may indeed be the tightest gripping hitch and under strain does not elongate at all. I tried it twice in 4mm accessory cord (quite stiff cord) around a plastic pipe about 1.5" in diameter (I can estimate better in inches!) and it does go on very tight and not slip when a moderate load is applied. However it started to move when I bent the ends together and put my weight on it - albeit it moved very slowly.  I tried the same materials with a 3 wrap Klemheist and that elongated but I couldn't move it. This is hardly scientific and until I have tried the TackleClamp hitch a few times I cannot be sure I dressed it as tightly as I might. So for the moment I don't think I would use it as first choice (that may change after some more practice) - mainly because it has 2 free ends which need bending together to be able to attach a separate lifting rope whereas a Klemheist or Prusik can be kept on a hook in the garage ready for use with a carabiner.

The pictures showing how to tie this are very helpful thanks.

Barry
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on March 04, 2012, 09:53:29 PM
   Thank you Sweeney,

   I am not going to "defend" this hitch, because it does not need me ... :), and because I know very well, from past knowledge and personal experience, that knot tyers - in general - are conservative, and will never accept any "new" knot that is unlucky enough to be presented during their own life time !  This in not something that happens only in our field, of course. It is said that the new theories of physics can be really established only after the previous generation of physicists die, and the physisists of the new generation have nothing to loose if they will accept them . However, I would like to make two comments, one with a question mark and one with an exclamation mark.  :)

I tried it twice in 4mm accessory cord ... around a plastic pipe about 1.5" in diameter

   (Twice is never  enough !  :) :) :) )
   I had used a 8mm kermantle nylon around a 3" plastic pipe - so the relation between the diameters of the rope and the pole in our tests were the same. However, I do not know if we can really scale things like this. It is a very difficult subject, because we use the length of the rope - to be able to pre-tension/pre-stress it-, but the surface of the pole...How hitches around poles are supposed to be scaled ? A question mark here...

mainly because it has 2 free ends which need bending together to be able to attach a separate lifting rope

   No, it does not...because those two ends are not "free", they are not independent - they are already bound together inside the knot ! ( An exclamation mark here). And they are even more tightly bound together by the final tuck of the one of them, shown at pictures 7 or 8 - which I think it might not be always  necessary.
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: Sweeney on March 04, 2012, 10:32:27 PM

mainly because it has 2 free ends which need bending together to be able to attach a separate lifting rope

   No, it does not...because those two ends are not "free", they are not independent - they are already bound together inside the knot ! ( An exclamation mark here). And they are even more tightly bound together by the final tuck of the one of them, shown at pictures 7 or 8 - which I think it might not be always  necessary.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. What I meant is that you have a hitch which has 2 ends either or both of which can be used but I would use this hitch separately from a line I was using to exert a force on the hitch - in other words I would not seek to place this hitch at the end of a long line which I then used to exert a force. That would be clumsy to tie. It would be far easier to attach a separate line by bending the 2 ends together.  The ends are "free" only in the sense that they are available to be used.

Barry

Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: DerekSmith on March 05, 2012, 02:06:20 PM
Hi Xarax,

Thanks for giving me a 'heads up' on this evolution of a hybridisation between the Versatackle and Dan Lehman's 'S Hitch',  As Dan mentioned back in his post in 2009 http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1451.msg10074#msg10074 (http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1451.msg10074#msg10074) we often need a binding that can be significantly pretensioned when it is made and the Tackle Clamp certainly gives us this.

Of interest, when I made it in garden twine or baler twine it was harder to pull it up but gripped itself very effectively, becoming essentially permanent.  But when I made it in smooth surfaced braid, I was able to get a much greater MA through the Versatackle component and so a much tighter binding, but the ends were then prone to slipping back out as, due to the substantial positive cogging of the Versatackle, its self locking ability is limited.

For strength as a binding it is exceptional.  The tension imparted by the Versatackle component puts load into the multiple coils which then do all the work in taking the load of the binding, with very little of the binding load being fed into the tensioning component.  [Note : anything more than ca 5 turns is a waste as the tension is effectively lost over the first two turns from each end see http://notableknotindex.webs.com/friction.html (http://notableknotindex.webs.com/friction.html) ]

As a hitch, i.e. to give a facility to apply a load along the hitched object, yes it works, but I would not use it for two reasons a) because other hitches are more effective (the Tackle Clamp has virtually no grip under load amplification system) and b) most other hitches are far easier to make (and remove).

Thank you for bringing a very useful tool to my knotting toolkit

Derek
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: X1 on August 29, 2012, 03:16:25 PM
   I was thinking that we can utilize one or more of the intermediate riding turns, as a means to squeeze the (twisted) pair of the working ends (prior-to-the-tails) in between this(those) riding turn(s) and the surface of the pole, a la Strange/Constrictor. This way we might "lock" the tails even more securely, so we would probably not need to pass them through the bights for a second time ( as was shown at Replies#2-3, pictures 7-8). We can have a tighten-and-forget hitch, that will remain locked without the need of additional brute-force measures, like the tying of the tails together with overhand knots upon overhand knots and half hitches upon half hitches...
   A disadvantage of this variation is that the bulk of the twisted-pairs-under-the-riding-turn(s) tangle would prevent the two bights from approaching each other beyond a certain point. The course that the two opposing parts/bights of the tackle would now be free to follow, as we tighten the hitch from the pre-tensioned initial position to the tensioned, final one, would now be shorter, so this would probably diminish its maximum gripping power. Of course, we can anticipate this, and start tightening the hitch with the two parts/bights being even further apart of what it is already shown at the previously posted pictures, so they will have enough room to move while they are approachng each other, without being hindered by the bulk of the twisted tails at the space between them.
   (See the attached pictures .)
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: X1 on October 09, 2012, 08:39:53 AM
  I have always posted pictures of the TackleClamp with 4 (at least) wraps - although it is obvious that it can be tied with 3, and 3 wraps only. The reason for this was the following : this is a most tight gripping hitch, designed to withstand heavy lengthwise loadings, by the accumulation - inside its multiple turns - of strong tensile forces, during a pre-stressing phase. Provided we use elastic materials that can be elongated quite a bid, ( like nylon, for example ), more turns can store more energy along a longer segment of the rope, that will remain in action even if the free ends slip through the opposing U s "locks" a little bid. The two-turns middle section was used for this purpose.
  However, there might be cases where this longer, two wraps middle section would not be more efficient, because we would not be able to pull the free ends and tension those two wraps efficiently in the first place - due to the greater friction forces induced on them by the surface of the pole. So, the minimum or optimum number of wraps is a matter that depends upon the elongation of the material and the friction coefficient of the pole - among other things !  :) .
   (See at the attached pictures the 3-wraps TackleClamp hitch, and compare it with other, "simpler", 3 and 4 wraps hitches :
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4035.0
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: X1 on October 23, 2012, 01:57:56 PM
   During the pre-tightening of a multi-wraps TackleClamp hitch, it is better to pull the one free end after the other - so the multiple middle wraps coil is tensioned through both ends. Otherwise, the friction forces between the multiple wraps and the surface of the pole could prevent a very tight grip of the hitch on the pole.
   With a 3-wraps TackeClamp hitch, tied around a slippery enough pole, this is not required. Just place the one end at the right location, between the two opposed bights, leave it there, and pull the other against the pole - as hard as you can !  :) A word of caution : the impulse generated by the great potential of the tackle mechanism is almost irresistible : The knot tyer should remember that he, himself, is but a fragile mechanism. He should be aware of the danger to harm his spinal chord. (Human : Kingdom: Animalia . Phylum: Chordata...). Pulling the one end of the rope by both hands against the pole, while, simultaneously, pushing the pole by both feet, can tighten the hitch to un unbelievable degree, -but it can also harm the back of the careless knot tyer / would-be Oxbridge-rower...
   Now, something else : When the hitch would be tightened, it may be difficult to pass the tail in between the last bight and the surface of the pole, in order to untie the knot, as I have said earlier in this thread. So, It is better to do it in advance : I would nt call this knot a slipped TackleClamp hitch ( it is nt, because the second/last leg of the tail is not nipped there, as the first,  it is just squeezed a little bid ), but it looks like a slipped knot nevertheless. The moment we pull the bight, the Tackle Clamp hitch is released in a glimpse, independently of the degree it has been tightened. Because the pulling of this bight does not pull a niped segment of a rope along its axis, it just re-locates the perpendicular to the axis position of the tail, so the "lock" does not work anymore, it is unlocked, and the knot is untied instantly. ( See the attached picture).
   The reader who have read (1) - where I have mentioned that the TackleClamp hitch is topologically equivalent to the overhand knot ( while the Double Cow hitch, presented there, is topologically equivalent to the unknot, so it is TIB ( tiable in the bight )) - would notice the useful change : the "slipped" TackleClamp hitch is TIB, too !!-- bonus, that, eh?!  :)

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4035.msg24345#msg24345
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on January 20, 2014, 01:31:27 PM
  I have seen some interest for the simple tight hitches recently  :) - although I do not know what exactly stirred it, the mechanism of the knots, or the colour of the ropes on which those knot were tied  :). Anyway, see more pictures of the tightest three-wrap hitch / binder we have - which, due to its symmetry, was characterized by somebody as " half clever" - probably because he has not understood, yet, that it is more than twice as tight - so, compared to other hitches, the net outcome can not but be positive  :).   
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: Dan_Lehman on January 21, 2014, 06:39:48 AM
Anyway, see more pictures of the tightest three-wrap hitch / binder we have
?!
By what method have you confirmed this bold
assertion (not just starry-eyed gazing for glory,
but some empirical method that others might
employ to see for themselves)?  "twice as tight"!!

Quote
--which, due to its symmetry, was characterized by somebody as " half clever" - probably because he has not understood, yet, that it is more than twice as tight - so, compared to other hitches, the net outcome can not but be positive  :).   

What has symmetry to do with "half clever"-ness?
Was some asymmetric binder claimed to be more clever?


--dl*
====
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on January 21, 2014, 12:26:08 PM
?!
By what method have you confirmed this bold assertion (not just starry-eyed gazing for glory,
but some empirical method that others might employ to see for themselves)?  "twice as tight"!!

  Do not bother ! I will not ask you to tell me by what method have you reached this bold assertion of yours, that the TackleClamp hitch is "half clever" / "clever [divided] by half" (sic) !  :) Even if one knew it, he would need a special technique to apply it, I guess - which me, for one, I am happy I never wished to master.
  When you will measure the tension on the wraps of this hitch, and compare it to the tension on the wraps of any other three-wrap tight hitch you know, give me a call, please.
  Anyway, I hope you like the colour of the rope !  :)

Was some asymmetric binder claimed to be more clever?

the structures that Xarax touts... are so ineffective as to be comical (and, yes, I can recognize my contribution to the genesis of the 2nd).  They go
towards winning the Too Clever by Half prize

  I am not sure if anybody can say that this tangle/thing/whatever, "described" at (1) and shown at (2) and at the attached picture, is more clever - but if you will ask me if it is more comical, I will be !  :)  I wonder which colour the rope of this beauty contestant should had, to make KnotMe characterize it as "pretty" ! Griffin s colour, perhaps  :)
 
  More seriously, I would had mentioned that one can judge the tension of a rope by listening it ! After all, within the elasticity area, a tensioned rope is a string - like a violin s string, for example  :). Tie the TackleClamp hitch and measure the pitch of the sound the rope makes, when it is tensioned as hard as shown in the picture. ( The frequency is proportional to the square root of the tension of the string / rope ).
  Actually, the "twice" as tight should have been expected, because of the mechanical advantage 2 : 1 each end tigtens its corresponding one-and-a-half wrap, as it is pulled by the knot tyer, the one after the other - and each millimetre of rope pulled out of the wraps will remain out, as nothng escapes from this tight grip of the tensioned-opposed-bights locking mechansm.
 
1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3805.msg22481#msg22481 (http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3805.msg22481#msg22481)
2.  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3805.msg22520#msg22520 (http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3805.msg22520#msg22520) 
Title: Vibrations reveal the state of ... ropes.
Post by: xarax on January 21, 2014, 07:43:41 PM
...some empirical method that others might employ to see for themselves ? 

...one can judge the tension of a rope by listening it ! After all, within the elasticity area, a tensioned rope is a string... 

https://www.kit.edu/visit/pi_2014_14403.php
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: Dan_Lehman on January 22, 2014, 06:26:09 AM
?!
By what method have you confirmed this bold assertion (not just starry-eyed gazing for glory,
but some empirical method that others might employ to see for themselves)?  "twice as tight"!!

  Do not bother ! I will not ask you to tell me by what method have you reached this bold assertion of yours, that the TackleClamp hitch is "half clever" / "clever [divided] by half" (sic) !  :) Even if one knew it, he would need a special technique to apply it, I guess - which me, for one, I am happy I never wished to master.
  When you will measure the tension on the wraps of this hitch, and compare it to the tension on the wraps of any other three-wrap tight hitch you know, give me a call, please.
  Anyway, I hope you like the colour of the rope !  :)
So, it was just your starry-eyed gazing, then.

Next thing you go talking about
Quote
  More seriously, I would had mentioned that one can judge the tension
of a rope by listening it ! After all, within the elasticity area, a tensioned rope is a string
--like a violin s string, for example  :).  Tie the TackleClamp hitch and measure the pitch of the sound
the rope makes, when it is tensioned as hard as shown in the picture.
Really, plucking the *strings* of a binder
set tightly around an object --what sort
of orchestra do you play in?  (Violins, and
all other stringed instruments, have strings
clear of objects but for where they might be
fretted, and a sound hole to boot!)

Quote
Was some asymmetric binder claimed to be more clever?

the structures that Xarax touts... are so ineffective as to be comical (and, yes, I can recognize my contribution to the genesis of the 2nd).  They go
towards winning the Too Clever by Half prize

  I am not sure if anybody can say that this tangle/thing/whatever, "described" at (1) and shown at (2) and at the attached picture, is more clever - but if you will ask me if it is more comical, I will be !  :)  I wonder which colour the rope of this beauty contestant should had, to make KnotMe characterize it as "pretty" ! Griffin s colour, perhaps  :)
Perhaps you've forgotten the point of that
contrivance --to be a HITCH, not a binder
(but a hitch that stays tightly set).  Hence
its asymmetry matches the loading.

Now, back to your string theory: yes, I suppose one
could contrive some object that was spaced apart so
as to provide the plucky researcher means to assess
tension by sound.
And then to try for a fair comparison, one could arrange
to tie both hitches with a single line such that their
four ends formed two bights by which one could suspend
a given weight in hopes of equal setting tension.  And
then *play* this instrument and see what sings the
higher notes!  (But I have my doubts about rope doing
much sounding, and we'd like to test a reasonable
material.)

As for how one might a prior have doubts about the
3-wrap tackleclamp, recall your (& my) observation
of the imbalanced loading of the 3-wraps --i.p., that the
center wrap is pulled by both ends and so more quickly
taut, and I'm surmising this will work against getting
the entire binder set well tight.

To the author of this thread, I would like to add that it is probably a good option
to tie the "TackleClamp" hitch / binder with one more (central) wrap,
so the distance(s) between the tips of each of the two bights and its anchor points
in the knot are about equal. ( There are pictures of such a knot in one of the firsts posts
I had presented the TackleClamp hitch ).That is probably beneficial to the overall balance
of the knot, so all the round turns remain equally tensioned.[/size][/font]

To be clear, the point made is that of the opposed
bights that face outwards (away from one another),
against which one will haul the ends,
one leg of each --in fact, their shared leg--
is a short span, and much shorter than the bights'
other legs, which run around the object.  So, in hauling
the bights there will want to be some movement
of the bights' material around the bights' tips in an
effort to equalize tension (where the short and
from-both-ends-loaded shared strand quickly
exhausts whatever elasticity it has in material!).

This is a point I slowly learned in playing with an earlier
like structure, which ran around the object in just three
reaches --the center one being over-stressed.  I thought
that the tackleclamp had avoided the problem when I just
counted its wraps, but as X. notes, there is the shared part
being short.

Making this a full wrap as he advises above redresses
the problem and also gives another binding part to the
structure for strength & security.

--dl*
====

Now, consider a double constrictor --or, more directly
for the point of delivered tension, a double clove h.--:
these knots receive direct tensioning from loaded ends
into their two outer wraps, and have the center one
hoping for flow from those two --but that seems better
than running into resistance quickly on the doubly
tensioned center one, hoping for some fall-out getting
to the outer two wraps?!
(The clove least impedes the loaded ends flowing
tension into the knot; they thus might least impede
the loss of that tension, but in time, not so immediately,
methinks (and YMMV per particular material).  Whereas
the tackleclamp is rich in knotting entanglement,
which begets much friction.)

Perhaps there might be a result that shows the
t. being superior in slick but worsening much
with frictive material --a steep decline--, vs. the
c. having a less declined plot of tightness,
initially less than but becoming more than ...
as friction of material increases?  (I recall playing
with some hitches on PVC and finding their fluid
tightening to be just what I wanted, but then
tying them to another (thicker) rope --which was
the aim--, there was no such needed tightening!)


--dl*
====
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on January 22, 2014, 12:21:12 PM
So, it was just your starry-eyed gazing, then.
Next thing you go talking about

   No, it is just your not willing to understand - even if we suppose you can. And, of course, you say nothing about WHICH three-wrap hitch is tighter than this... However, I am glad you have not brought this tangle/thing/whatsoever of yours this time - I would nt expect many starry-gazing eyes looking at her !  :)
   Please, next thing you do, tie the f knot placing it side by side around the same pole to whatever other same-wrap hitch you chose, tightening it with the same force, and pulling the ends against the pole - and then use those star-gazing eyes of yours - because it seems as you are not able to use your ears, and listen to the pitch of the sound the rope makes on the surface of the pole... OR, for that matter, you are not aware of the fact that, if you do not tie the slipped variation of the hitch, or if you do not tie it near one end of a slippery pole, you would have great difficulties to pull it lengthwise along the pole s surface and remove it.
   On the contrary, I have tied and tried this hitch MANY times, side by side with every hitch I know - and I believe I know some, among them some you do not - as shown at the picture in another thread. Well, there is no comparison between the 3- or 4- TackleClamp hitch to any other hitch, the Double Cow hitch included. I imagine there are 4 main reasons for this :

   1  The fact that one can use the mechanical advantage offered by the Cow hitch Zig-Zag arrangements of the wraps of BOTH ends ( the "too-clever-by-half" mechanism, as you understood it...).
   2. The fact that one can pull BOTH ends against the pole. The difference in amount of the tension we are able to induce into the wraps during the pre-tightening phase, between this way/direction of pulling the ends, and the way/direction we pull them in the simple-hitch-a-la-Gleipnir or the 2U s hitches (1), is huge ! I use my hands AND feet to tighten the ends - but if you ever decide to really test the TackleClamp hitch ( instead of complaining this/your way, for something you could well have tied in the first place but missed it ) you have to be more careful than me ( this time !  :)). I still suffer from pains in my back, because this music this hitch makes as it is tensioned around the pole is enchanting, indeed.  :)
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren
   3. The fact that the tensioned, opposed bights "locking" mechanism is the best straight-Tail locking mechanism we have.
   4. The fact that there are no riding turns, as in the snug hitches, for example, so the wraps do not leave the surface of the pole - they remain in contact with it alongside their full circumference.

   However, I still do not know if you really have tied and tried this hitch and compared it to the other tight hitches you know, or you just gaze at it with your eyes - because I can not believe that there will be any knot tyer, however biased he can possibly be, to not acknowledge the tremendous gripping power of the TackleClamp hitch... Of course, human psychology is far more complex than any tangle, and I may be a mediocre knot tyer, but am also a lousy f psychologist !  :) :)

   1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3104.msg18513#msg18513

   Really, plucking the *strings* of a binder set tightly around an object --what sort of orchestra do you play in?  (Violins, and all other stringed instruments, have strings clear of objects but for where they might be fretted, and a sound hole to boot!)

  I should perhaps inform you that a solid object vibrates, even when it is hit, and not plucked.... And those vibrations can be listened, detected and measured - especially if they take place on the surface of a hollow cylinder, as the poles I use to tie hitches are.
  Now, if you really wish to have a sound hole, drill one !  :) I have not done it, but I suppose that if you drill a small hole on the surface of a hollow pipe, directly under the three wraps, you will be able to play and listen, with your ears, the song I have written as an answer to you !  :)
   
 I fear no jamming knot
 or lose the long-lost pride
 or spill from the unicorn
 on which I do not ride
.

  (  Music from the movie " All that Jazz" ( 1979)
   Any other linguistic improvements and rhythm s ideas are welcomed... :) )

   Do not fear the tight hitches - and the TackleClamp hitch, in particular. Tie and try them !

  Perhaps you've forgotten the point of that contrivance --to be a HITCH, not a binder (but a hitch that stays tightly set).

  No, I have not - how can one forget that tangle/thing/whatever ?  :) On the contrary, you seem to have forgotten that I am equating the "tight hitches" (2) with the "binders". So, many times in this thread, and elsewhere, I write "tight hitch" or "binder", and I mean the same thing. A tight hitch and/or a binder can be pre-tightened and/or tightened by one or both ends, and it can be symmetric or not. Symmetry has nothing to do with a thing being a tight hitch or a binder, - but your thing has not incorporated that knowledge... :) The reason the TackleClamp hitches are symmetric, is that, by being so, they are able to take advantage of the mechanical advantage on both ends, of the multiplied-by-two tension induced within the wraps from both sides of the coil - so the distance between the ends of the wraps which we can pull directly, and the middle of the wraps which we can not influence so much, because of friction - is minimum. At the locked Cow hitch, a similar tight hitch with one only end able to be pulled, we have two only wraps, not three, so the friction of the surface of the pole does not hinder the tightening process so much, as when we have three wraps. Now, on that thing, you consume two whole wraps just to lock the Tail end, and you don't even use the mechanical advantage Cow-hitch based tight hitches / binders use... But I will not bother you any longer for something which I am afraid that does not have many chances to win any tightness or beauty contest. Fetch the next hitch of yours, so we will be able to compare it with the TackleClamp hitch.
(  I still wonder why Ashley missed them - after all, you, also, invented one by yourself, did nt you ? I suspect that by trying to silence the TackleClamp hitch s music, you decided to silence your beautiful S-binder, too...)

2.http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4155.msg25243#msg25243

As for how one might a prior have doubts about the 3-wrap tackleclamp, recall your (& my) observation of the imbalanced loading of the 3-wraps --i.p., that the center wrap is pulled by both ends and so more quickly taut, and I'm surmising this will work against getting the entire binder set well tight.

  We have discussed this issue, and I have said that, if one is afraid of this, he can tie the TackleClamp hitch with one more ( one added central ) wrap. However, if you tie this 3-wrap hitch as tight as you can  ( as I said, first taking out any slack, before the pulling - then pull alternatively, the one end after the other, starting from a proper position of the two opposed bights on the surface which will enable their tensioning right to the end, before they will have the chance to "kiss" each other ), if you do this, you will see that our fears were academic - the hitch/binder closes so tightly, you can not say one wrap is not as tightly tighten as any other. Certainly, to my ears, at least, the pitch they make when they are hit does not differ. It seems that, after some stage, the central wrap can not be tensioned any more, and the mechanism re-adjusts itself, so, after this stage, it is the end wraps that consume any material pulled by the free ends.
   My favourite form of the TackleClamp hitch is the 3 / wraps one - where we have this interesting Janus image, a hitch with 3 wraps at the one side/face of the pole and 4 wraps at the other - perhaps just because it is so interesting, and it does not run the danger to be "closed" before it can be tightened to the extreme. I have published those pictures of the completely closed 3-wraps TackleClamp hitch just because I wished to offer to KnotMe - who wrote a king comment about the Bull-Clove hitch shown at the other thread - a present wrapped with pink colour !  :) As I was posting the pictures, I remembered your 'kind" comments about the TackleClamp hitch being "too-clever-by-half"(sic), and the rest was just a knee-jerk reaction, I have to admit...

   Regarding your last comment about the relation of the TackleClamp hitch to the Double Constrictor ( and, for that matter, to the Double Clove hitch ), again, I have, somehow, to force you to understand the GREAT difference it makes when we are able to :
1. Use the mechanical advantage offered at the Cow-hitch type of hitches.
2. Pull the end(s) AGAINST the pole - meaning not only perpendicularly to the axis of the pole, but perpendicularly to its surface, too - so, pull end(s) that do not leave the pole being tangent to its surface. I have learned this by tying and trying - and I sincerely I hope that you, too, will learn it before you retire !  :)

   I AM NOT HAPPY, not happy at all, from the fact that I can not find any other tight hitch / binder that can be pre-tightened / tightened, and keep this tension locked within its wraps, as much as the TackleClamp hitch... It seems that my journey in that part of the KnotLand came to an end - and no Odysseus worth his salt is ever happy with an end... I keep a sweet memory of the S-turns I made until I met her - and a bitter one of the pains in my back, and the "kind" comments by other suitors / knot-tyers she generated ... :)
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on January 26, 2014, 03:25:34 PM
consider a double constrictor...

  The TackleClamp tight hitch/binder is tighter than the Double Constrictor ? No !! It is mush-much tighter !! ( To repeat a repetition - I wonder if, when you repeat something, and then repeat the repeated sentence, this is equivalent to having said the same thing three times, or four ( (1+1) x 2 ) times ?  :) ) 
   I take the risk to be condemned, again, as consuming valuable bits and bytes of the Forum s memory  :), and I post two new pictures of the TackleClamp hitch - repetition is boring, but it is also the mother of all earning.
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: alanleeknots on January 29, 2014, 07:33:59 AM
Hi All,
        Xarax, I modify your hitch little bit, seem like it work this way too.
        Hope you like it.

        謝謝   alan lee
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on January 29, 2014, 02:02:55 PM
   Thank you, Alan.

  The problem with this hitch ( which was one of the first I had considered, probably even before the simple-hitch-a-la-Gleipnir...) is that, while you pull the ends against the pole to induce tensile forces within the wraps ( and lock them there with the help of the opposing tensioned bights mechanism ), those same opposing bights you wish to "close" as much as possible, widen up ! So, although you can increase the tension by using the mechanical advantage of the Cow hitch, and fewer wraps / less material than in the TackleClamp hitch, you decrease the locking force - so those opposing bights are not able to keep any tension that would be induced into the wraps, locked there as firmly as required. I had tried to solve this problem in :
  http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3104.0
  ...but, although the tensioning and locking mechanisms were fine, the direction along which the free ends exit the knot s nub is not the one we would had wished. I repeat here what I had pointed out to dL a number of times : One should be able to pull the free ends against the pole, in a direction perpendicular to the axis and the surface of the pole. The Constrictor, single or double, the single or double simple-hitch-a-la-Gleipnir, and the 2U hitches, can not be pre-tensioned as much as the TackleClamp hitch in the first place, so, at the end, they can not be as tight hitches / binders as the TackleClamp hitch.
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: 2Kenora on April 13, 2014, 11:07:00 PM
I just have to weigh in as a proponent of the Tackleclamp gripping hitch.  When I first saw this thread of course I had to try it out and bent a bit of 4.5mm nylon braid around a vertical 36mm pole that is part of a bookshelf in my den.  I was impressed with the ease of tying and found it very simple to dress the bights to their diametric "sweet spots" simply by snugging up the turns by pulling on the bights after the first pass through with the free ends.  Once I had it where I thought was right I finished passing the free ends through the opposing bights to complete the knot.  I did this by gripping the turns with my thumb between the bights being drawn together and my fingers on the other side.  I had to "peel back" the bights somewhat in order to show enough loop to pass the ends through but once that was done I simply gave a quick tug on the two free ends and then let the knot hang there.

Now, at first I thought that I should perhaps use an overhand knot at the very least to keep the tensioning forces pulling in the proper direction before applying any kind of load (it just looks as if it needs it) but instead i began tugging on the free ends, together in the same direction; in opposite directions; pulling one only while leaving the other untensioned; etc.  Wow!

So how easy is it to untie?  I had to use fingernails to loosen the free ends on their final pass through the bights but once that was accomplished, the whole affair simply fell apart and it was a simple matter to get my cord back.

So I tied it again, this time with only three turns around the slippery pole.  I cinched it up quite tight and joined the free ends together with a zeppelin bend and put one foot in the loop created and gave it some weight.  Well!  I almost pulled my whole bookshelf down!  ("Honey, what are you doing in there?" . . . "Ummm, knotting.")  I was beginning to really admire this hitch!

But what really sold me on this hitch was the first practical use that I found for it not too long afterward!
I work in the construction industry (plumber) and began work again on a structure that was begun last season and we were only able to come back to after a particularly harsh winter.  The melt water from all the snow was literally pouring through this place (of course I am below in the bowels of this place) and my workspace consists of concrete walls set on bedrock with ice and/or flowing water everywhere.  There is a beam supported by powdercoated steal columns, smooth from top to bottom and nowhere to set my tools.

So I took a bit of small diameter rope and tied the TackleClamp up high on a column (+/- 3" dia) and on the one free end I made a bowline loop to hang my toolbag that has a belt clip that I can wear at my waist (but too cumbersome to wear all day long in this dank, wet crawl environment). The other free end I had to get a bit more creative as the tool bag I had to hang had loop handles and no clip that could easily be attached to anything.  I'd left this tag end a bit longer on purpose and in it I made an Alpine Butterfly loop of just the right size and at the very end a simple double overhand stopper.  (heh.  originally I started with an Ashleigh stopper knot but found that I had to think about it too much and it was taking too long.  The double overhand actually turned out to be ideal as it had a better shoulder to catch the butterfly loop since I simple ran this through one handle of the big bag and used the loop made by the butterfly to hold the stopper knot.

I worked over a week and a half in that gawdawful environment but never lost a tool and never had to do more than the usual cleaning and oiling of them!  My rope hung on that pole the whole time and daily I would hang my tools on it.  When I was done I had to again use fingernails and a bit of oomph but I easily got my rope back.  I LOVE IT when I learn a new knot AND find a practical application for it!  This will definitely be written in my book of "Knots Used On a Daily Basis".

I would like to learn more of the history of this hitch.

*Edit:  I weighed the tools.
My Belt toolbag just under 12 lbs imperial
The "Big Bag" 38-1/2" lbs
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on April 14, 2014, 12:41:13 AM
  I finished passing the free ends through the opposing bights to complete the knot.

  So, you did nt use the "funny" mnemonic of the method shown at (1) ( instead, you used something like the method shown at (2), starting from a Clove hitch ). Try this mnemonic, and, after just a few times, you would also learn to tie it "in-the-end", using the one only end.

   So how easy is it to untie?  I had to use fingernails to loosen the free ends on their final pass through the bights

  After a hard tensioning ( pulling the ends against the pole, hands and feet involved, like a rower... :)), it is NOT ! So, tie the slipped version ( shown at Reply#12 ), which is also TIB - or tie it very near the end of the pole  :), so you would be able to release it by sliding it just a little...

  I would like to learn more of the history of this hitch.

  Fortunately, there is a written record of what had lead to this knot : read the replies to deleted posts by knot4u, which triggered the event (3). Curiously, Dan Lehman s similar ( and also beautiful ) knot was not involved, although the path from there would be much shorter. Is nt it strange ? You know and appreciate a nice knot which is just one step away from the knot you are searching for, but instead you climb up and down two stairs to reach it ...   
 
1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26178#msg26178
    http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26331#msg26331
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26058#msg26058
    http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26059#msg26059
3. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3794.msg22246#msg22246
    http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3794.msg22248#msg22248
    http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3794.msg22252#msg22252
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: enhaut on April 14, 2014, 06:46:23 PM
Dear Xarax,
I have made some tests of my own design.
New rope, your TackleClamp, around a nice piece of furniture with a taper end;
note the this wood is varnished.
Tying the xxx very tight I then applied a pull lenghtwise toward the taper end.
The knot failed this test. :-[
Otherwise on a nice symetric structure (round-pole) this TackelClamp works well.
The tying is a bit fastidious but the mecanism is great.
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: 2Kenora on April 17, 2014, 04:06:44 AM
Yeah, for a conical pole the sailers hitch with a few extra turns, or an icicle hitch is best.  But I have been having fun with the TackleClamp!  I think it's a great knot worthy of testing it to it's limits!  I've had a few opportunities to try it in practical applications since first learning about it (the first; keeping my tools out of the meltwater and muck.  5 Stars right there!) but just tonight I had to chuckle as I prepared a walking stick for a hike we're taking the kids on tomorrow.  It hit me in an instant and I just had to try it... the TackleClamp Decorative knot!  Seriously!  It ain't half bad actually.

Check it:
(http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af188/Mig_M/Knots/th_tackleclampdecorative-1.jpg) (http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/Mig_M/media/Knots/tackleclampdecorative-1.jpg.html)

*Edit: first pic uploaded to these forums.  Let me know if I botched it or knot.  ;)
cheers!
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on April 17, 2014, 05:40:26 AM
   As I had mentioned somewhere, I think that it is better to pull, by both hands ( and feet, if possible !  :)) the ends one by one, in a number of consecutive efforts ( a number depending on the number of the turns : in general, more turns will require more successive pulls ), in order to maximize the outcome of the mechanical advantage - so the idea of first joining and then pulling them together by this convenient "handle", as shown in the picture, may help the grip, but it is probably not so great idea regarding the pre-tensioning of the wraps. 

...for a conical pole the sailers hitch with a few extra turns, or an icicle hitch is best.

   I had not said this, of course ! - but I like the name "saler s hitch" ( much more accurate than the misleading "sailor s hitch"...)  because it seems that this mediocre hitch is sold to many clients, indeed !  :)
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: 2Kenora on April 19, 2014, 03:56:34 AM
By the "handle", are you referring to the diamond knot up close to the bights on your TackleClamp?  That is merely there for adornment.
Usually on a walking stick I like to have a loop near the top end of the staff as it can be useful either as a wrist loop; a loop to hang the stick by; or what have you.  Later I bent the free ends together with a blimp knot and with small cord tied a small 5x3 TH (or is it a 3x5??? I can never get that right!) as a slider which I used to cinch up the loop when I pulled it over the end of the staff and created kind of a loose bowstring.

And, Hey, xarax... don't you dare dis the sailor's knot!  That baby has been a standby, daily use knot for me since Sea Scouts!  Quick and efficient, easy to dress, and holds fast on the most greasy spar, tapered or not!  I kid you knot!  I've use it in place of the more secure (if you get it dressed just right) pipe hitch when time was of the essence and things were slipping away quickly.

But I digress, the TackleClamp on squared lumber.  Have you tried that?  I had to extend the reach of a 2x4 with the only thing at hand at the time which was a piece of 1 x 3.  I easily could have simply shot some screws from my screwgun and made a sturdy enough board but instead I opted to lash it and for this I chose the TackleClamp.  At first I thought that I'd do two, one at the end of each piece of lumber, however I found that just the one held securely enough so I left it at that and thought I'd see how that fared.  (This was for a temporary shelter around the front of my house so I can complete some rockwork I'm doing.)

A tarp was attached to the end of the 2x4 and the wind came up and blew it around a bit all thru the day but when days end came and I wanted to get my rope back and fold up the shelter, the knot had held tight.  I had to use a nail to free the two ends but once that was done the knot literally fell off.
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on April 19, 2014, 05:20:15 AM
   By the "handle", are you referring to the diamond knot up close to the bights on your TackleClamp?  That is merely there for adornment.

  Nice handle !  :) ( I wrap the ends, one by one, around a short wooden toggle, so I am able to grab it and pull each of them hard, and not harm my palms - because my spinal cord has been harmed already ! Another recent trick I use, is to hang the hitched pole itself from its end(s), at an adequate but safe distance from the floor, and then step on it :

   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4441.msg31226#msg31226

... the sailor's knot!  That baby has been a standby, daily use knot for me since Sea Scouts ! .

   Then, call it a Sea Scout s hitch, because a "Sailor s hitch", it is not !  :) I bet that no sailor has ever used this mediocre hitch, when there are dozens of better, much more secure and much more tight ones. However, with intensive marketing, it seems that one can sell anything he/she wishes - so it is no wonder that this thing was sold to some people. 

...the TackleClamp on squared lumber...
...had held tight.

  I keep pre-tensioned TackleClamp hitches tied on round and square cross section poles for months, and I have never noticed any loosening. The pitch of the sound I hear when I hit the wraps ( and they vibrate, just like the plucked strings of a harpsichord... :) ), remains exactly the same, so I reckon that the tension remains the same as well. HOWEVER, I do NOT recommend tying any "tight" hitch, in general, and the tighter of them all, the TackeClamp hitch, in particular, around objects with sharp edges, which can harm the material in the core of the rope, ( especially during the phase of pre-tightening ) without leaving any visible traces on its surface.
  ( Note : I have use only "ordinary" meterials : I have never tried this hitch ( or any other knot...) on Dyneema, which, as I understand, can creep a lot...)   
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: 2Kenora on April 19, 2014, 11:52:14 PM
hmmm, as far as the "pre-tensioning" goes, so far I've simply used the MA that the knot offers.  I've found that I can tightly wrap (without trying for maximum stretch of the rope/cord being used) and once the first pass is made thru the bights simply draw it together.   If I've mis-judged the placement of the bights, or for really stretchy rope, simply redress the bights back a bit by pulling the free ends in opposite directions and then pulling them tight again.  Granted that the more turns there are, the less effective this method will be as only the outermost turns will be tightened.  That and the tightening isn't consistent through all the wraps.  But for general use that isn't a problem.

For <b>critical</b> applications then that changes everything but then I would like to see a lot more testing done on this knot before trusting it in any critical application.  The sharp turns that the two bights make concern me a bit as far as that goes.

"Sea Scout Knot"!   ;D
Title: Re: The TackleClamp gripping hitch.
Post by: xarax on April 20, 2014, 12:59:10 AM
  If I've mis-judged the placement of the bights, or for really stretchy rope,

  Starting from a Clove hitch, as shown at (1)-(2), or from the initial arrangement shown at (3), there is always ample room for the two opposing bights to reposition themselves on the surface of the pole - so there is no danger of a premature terminal "closing" of the hitch, before the wraps can be pulled to the point they become maximally pre-tensioned. I have tested this "inverted" form of the TackleClamp hitch on dozens of different materials - including power and telephone cables... :). Although it is true that one can never predict with precision when and where, on the surface of the pole, their movement will "terminate", there is no need to "redress the bights back".

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26058#msg26058
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26059#msg26059
3. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26178#msg26178

the more turns there are, the less effective this method will be as only the outermost turns will be tightened. 

  For 6 wraps, when tied as shown in (4), this is not true - and you can see why, just by observing the distance between the ends and the middles of the turns. Now, there is an interesting win-win situation here : if we will need more wraps, that would be because the surface of the pole will be very slippery, so the wraps would be able to slide easily on it and the induced tension will be able to reach at their middles - and if the surface of the pole will not be very slippery, we will not need more wraps !  :) 

4. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4224.msg26151#msg26151