Author Topic: Whoopie sling without splicing  (Read 1974 times)

mcjtom

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Whoopie sling without splicing
« on: September 30, 2022, 04:30:26 AM »
Whoopie sling is often used to easily and quickly adjust the hammock height.  It uses splicing of a hollow braid rope to create a Chinese finger trap like construct that locks under tension but slides easily when slack .

How to reproduce it but without splicing, with knots?  Some friction hitch may be in order but note that the Chinese finger trap is in the middle of the rope with the tail sliding through it.

One option is something similar to this, the 3 half-hitches acting like a trap.  But this is a bit flimsy and can easily fall apart when slack.

Are there better ideas?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 04:35:51 AM by mcjtom »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2022, 09:42:26 PM »
[edit to add]
Quote
Quote
Are there better ideas?
... a pathetic way to somehow
bring the sheepshank into play!
  :-\
I should add that in fact one might bring the sheepshank
--or, to be precise, it's securing structure, roughly--
into play.  One could make a couple/few U-folds
for spreading the load around the object,
and then cast a sheepshank-esque HHitch around
the lot, AND THEN repeat this action
BUT BRING THE 2nd HH DOWN AROUND THE 1st
--i.e., on the other side to usual which forms a clove h..
This "down around" placement gives a good bight
and better stability --yes, takes care in dressing & setting.

Then, one has (1) shared wear, (2) given the S.Part
a big curvature (nipping all those U-fold apexes),
and (3) made an easily untied knot.
QED?!


 ;)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 12:29:49 AM by Dan_Lehman »

mcjtom

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2022, 06:04:04 AM »
The idea is to come up with some reasonable knotted equivalent of adjustable spliced Whoopie sling which would be convenient to use with hammocks and wouldn't fall apart every time you fold the thing.

Do you own a hammock? :-)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 08:03:52 AM by mcjtom »

SS369

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2022, 02:45:57 PM »
I have found a trucker's hitch to suffice, usually with a round inside the eye. It helps to hold the tension til the final locking off. Afterward, just coil the rope(s) and roll it up inside the hammock.

SS

roo

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2022, 04:43:27 PM »
The idea is to come up with some reasonable knotted equivalent of adjustable spliced Whoopie sling which would be convenient to use with hammocks and wouldn't fall apart every time you fold the thing.

Do you own a hammock? :-)
Depending on the rope, a couple of approaches come to mind. 

Perhaps an HFP Slippery 8 Loop:  https://notableknotindex.webs.com/slippery8.html

Or an ascender-style knot suitable for same-size rope, such as:  https://notableknotindex.webs.com/blakeshitch.html
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 04:46:45 PM by roo »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2022, 05:22:54 PM »
[edit to add]
Quote
Are there better ideas?
Ooops, looks as though I thought I was REPLYING
to myself vs. editing, and so lost the answer to the
OP!  <sigh>

A Prusik hitch well replaces that center spliced structure,
allowing the same adjustability & grip.

--dl*
====

mcjtom

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2022, 04:28:17 AM »
Potentially neat idea: make a long Butterfly loop near one end (with its own small end fixed loop, like the Bowline), then use it to make a Prusik or Klemheist around the long standing part thereby making an 'infinitely' adjustable sling loop, similar in functionality to the Whoopie sling. 

I'll illustrate it as soon as I can, unless Dan beats me to it.

One problem with it is that the Prusik and the standing part are made from the same diameter rope and thus don't bite on each other that well.  But it may work for hammocks - we'll see.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 04:40:08 AM by mcjtom »

mcjtom

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2022, 08:00:10 AM »
Or an ascender-style knot suitable for same-size rope, such as:  https://notableknotindex.webs.com/blakeshitch.html
The Blake's' hitch works probably better on the same diameter ropes than the Prusik.  Are there any others with this property? 

I was even thinking of the Still to Be Named friction hitch, recently discussed.  It locks more by wedging the standing part than friction, which may be a good thing for slippery/stiff ropes, and indeed bites quicker and often better than other adjustable friction hitches that I know, without much dressing.

While it may not make much practical difference, all those friction hitches are tied at the end of the tail and slide along the standing part when adjusted.  Conversely, the Whoopie sling 'finger trap' stays in one spot on the standing part and it is the tail that moves through it.  Making a Prusik using the Butterfly loop made on the standing part and feeding the tail through it should work the same way, but I'm not sure how effectively and/or conveniently comparing with other methods.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2022, 09:29:13 AM by mcjtom »

KC

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2022, 01:44:05 AM »
To me, Blake's/ProHaska has single leg of pull as a Friction Hitch, that feeds inline along host and feeds from base as Adjustable Hitch.  So more favorable geometry to clean flowing pull for this task.
In distinct contrast to Prusik 's dual legs of pull (usually a 'closed' Prusik) so of smaller diameter than host, pulling more at right angle across host from center of knot/hitch.
.
Can make 1 handed pull if have a ring etc. under Friction Hitch as a 'knot tender' so don't have to grip Friction Hitch with 1hand as pull host thru it with other hand.
.
Single leg pull Friction Hitches can generally work with same diameter/materials as host.
The less dip, for straighter across hammock leverages borne weight harder against the rope used.
.
SS369 Trucker's with RT that crosses self to lock self when released as it goes from 3/1 pull potential, to a 2/1 hold is fair, allows 1handed pull to lock or can leave out the RT lock mechanism in eye end as finish Trucker's with Friction Hitch  etc.  Can also try for similar lock of own self crossing in eye by doing normal Trucker's back again around anchor and back thru eye to pull as like a 5/1 that again crosses self in eye to hold on release.  Prefer safety over lock of bight as Overhand in Bitter End anyway.
.
1 handing frees up other hand, and easier to impact, knot tender type strategies generally slow some drop in tension on release tho, so overtightened as pre-fix to compensate.
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

James Petersen

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2022, 10:27:14 AM »
Sounds like a rat-tail stopper knot (used on mooring lines of merchant vessels) would fit the bill nicely.

    -- JP


mcjtom

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2022, 03:19:35 PM »
How would one tie it to hang (adjustably) a hammock?

James Petersen

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2022, 04:56:53 PM »
How would one tie it to hang (adjustably) a hammock?

The rat-tail stopper is tied beginning from the center of a piece of cordage (usually somewhat smaller than the line onto which it is tied), with each working end circling in opposite directions around  and toward the end of the line onto which it is tied. When enough passes have been made, the two working ends are tied together as close to the line as possible. I prefer to use a two strand matthew walker to do this as the ends emerge from the knot together and parallell and in line with the line on which the stopper is tied.

At this point a loop can be made in the end of the line and the ends emerging from the rat-tail stopper can be tied to this loop with a becket hitch, which can be slipped or not. I have used a perfection/angler's loop instead of a bowline in this case, again, since both legs of the loop enter the knot together and parallel and tend to stay together, unlike a bowline, which tends to hold the loop open.

One might also opt to tie a loop with the lines emerging from the Matthew walker, and use the end of the main line to tie into those.

At this point you have an adjustable loop which can be loosened or tightened easily, and opened without removing the rat-tail stopper.

   -- jp

« Last Edit: October 15, 2022, 08:39:40 AM by James Petersen »

wysper

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2022, 01:55:20 AM »
Wow, I like this. I have absolutely no need for it at the moment but I am going to try to find one.
I want to try that out!

Thanks JP!

Mike Islander

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Re: Whoopie sling without splicing
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2022, 02:00:05 PM »
Blake's hitch tied with the working end. Collapses, but works as a Blake's does. Like the whoopie sling, tail passes through a fixed point on the working end.