Once security reaches 100% in rope (i.e., rope breaks before it slips), any additional data about security doesn't matter much.
Do not say this again !
It is a sooo false a statement ! If that was so, our life would be much easier, that is true -but unfortunately or fortunately, it is not.
So, you tie one of these knots in monofilament, find out it slips in monofilament, lose confidence in the knot, and then end up tying some ridiculously large and unnecessary knot in rope. Is that how it works? I don't get the point.
Obviously
Is that what I said ? Better, is that something I could have said ? And would you
discuss it with a person that had said such a nonsense ?
I will repeat it another time, in as plain a language as I can use ;
You tie two knots with/on a certain rope. They do not slip. You tie them with a more slippery rope . They still do not slip . Are they equally secure ? If that was so, you do not need the most complex knot, because the security of the simpler one is as great as it can be, and anything more is redundant. History of the secure knots stops in the first century A.D. You are left with one knot : one hitch, one loop and one bend.
Two knots tied on the same rope material do not slip. Are they equally secure ? Of course not. Security of knots is a complex issue. The single most important factor is the structure, the geometry of the knot. This geometry remains (almost) the same, when the knots are tied with any of the usual ( not elastic ) materials. So, when we tie a knot with a very slippery material, like a non-coated spectra/dyneema, a monofilament fishing line, a dental floss thread, its structure remains the same. However, while the structure remains the same, the specific friction characteristics of the rope surface are different. A knot that will not slip when tied on a common rope material, may slip when tied on a more slippery material. ( Of course, all the other parameters are supposed to be the same, as the form and the initial force with which the knot is dressed in the first place, the type of the pull, etc )
What we like to test, when we compare two different knots, is their security related to their structure. If we can not do it on a non slippery material, because both knots do not slip there, we try to test it on a more slippery material. If we are lucky, we can find a slippery enough material where both knots do slip, but the one slips less than the other. If that is so, we can say that, tied on this X material, knot A slips more than knot B, so knot A is less secure than knot B. And this relation is going to be reversed with any other material Z, because it is the structure of the knot that is the single most important factor that dictates security, and this structure will not change significantly when the knot will be tied with this Z material. So, the relation will not be reversed. As I said in the previous post ;
It had never happened to me, when a knot slip less and it is more secure than another, when those two knots are tied on a certain rope material, to slip more and be less secure, when those two ropes would be tied on another material !
The not-knot-tyer will jump and be eager to shout : But
I am not interested in the security of
my knot when tied on
your slippery material !
I will always use this specific material in which
my knot does not slip...so why
I bother for
any other condition ?
...and I will be eating the same breakfast each day, so I will dress and tie this same knot in exactly the same way each time, I have a ton of this rope material kept inside a completely controlled environment, so even if the manufacturer changes the chemical composition of the material or declares bankruptcy, this will not affect my ropes, it will never rain or snow in the place where I will always tie my ropes, my ropes will never suffer from fatigue, chemical degradation, sunlight, air or liquid acids, vibrations, accidental cuts on the surface, UV exposure, heat, curse from my wife...
The only thing that remains almost the same, is the structure, the geometry of the rope - which is also the most important factor that determines its security. If you can compare different knot structures under the same circumstances, and find out that a knot is more secure than an other under those circumstances, this is not going to change under any other circumstances. When I say that a knot is more secure than another, I describe a relation that is independent of the specific circumstances, and only reveals a characteristic of the structures, the "geometry" of those knots, not their "physics".
