Author Topic: More double midline loops  (Read 6920 times)

xarax

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More double midline loops
« on: February 11, 2012, 06:04:00 PM »
Now, there are dozens of midline, TIB single or double loops known, and I guess that there are dozens that are unknown.

???  How about naming some few others to compare?!

   It is true that the TIB knots are fewer than the rest, but that does not mean that they are few ! :) This is most evident in the case of the double TIB loops - and as in indication of this we may mention that the relevant chapter of ABoK is one of the most lengthy ones...In fact, there are dozens of known double midline loops, and we can guess that there are dozens more that remain unknown. A possible simple "base" that we can exploit to tie midline double loops, is the two nipping loops and two bights formation, I have called "eyes and ears"  :), reported at (1). If we pass the bights through the nipping lops in some ways, we can tie stable, secure double midline loops. We can also change the order and/or the orientation of the "eyes"and the "ears" formed on the main line, and so tie many other, different double loops. Two of the double midline loops tied with this simple  method, are presented in the attached pictures.

( I have not looked if those double TIB loops are in the ABoK, but the main purpose of the post was the simple tying method, not the loops themselves.)

1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3020.msg21737#msg21737
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 03:20:27 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: More double midline loops
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 05:15:14 AM »
   It is true that the TIB knots are fewer than the rest, but that does not mean that they are few ! :)

Here, to be accurate, one needs to qualify with "interesting"
or something, of "knots" --for by some simple (and quite
UNinteresting) methods, it can be shown that there are
some infinity of knots ... : equal in (impractical) number!
(E.g., re-tucking an eye through the knot body begets yet
another "knot" --unlikely to be anything but a theoretical
proof.)

Quote
A possible simple "base" that we can exploit to tie midline double loops,
is the two nipping loops and two bights formation, I have called "eyes and ears"  :), reported at (1).
1) http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3020.msg21737#msg21737

This is significant, and IMO significantly urges that such
discussions be in the Knotting Explorations forum and
not Practical --and we know the old arguments about
this, and Why tie ...? vs. Because someday ... ping pong.

This is a good step of pulling from knots such a "basis"
for knot construction, and employing it to take one
further into the knots universe.  Yes, there are some
interesting ways to engage rope in its middle, with
some general bases such as Xarax presents.  One
can, e.g., elaborate on Ashley #1408 & 1425 (and
more) schemas, out of the *middle*, for interesting
"twin-eye" knots --as I envision them (where the two
eyes are roughly adjacent and used qua one, so to get
assured behavior when loaded in either direction (as
contrast w/e.g. the butterfly's asymmetry)).

!!  There are some very interesting directions to take
by such elaboration and then exploration of *bases* !!


 :)

xarax

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Re: More double midline loops
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 03:24:00 PM »
This is significant, and IMO significantly urges that such discussions be in the Knotting Explorations forum and not Practical forum

I have no doubt whatsoever that those two double midline loops are as practical TIB double loops as any other - and even more so !  :) They are simple, stable, secure, easy-to-tie, tied following a most easy to remember tying method, etc. They are probably easier to remember how to tie than most the double loops in the relevant Ashley s chapter, and they are no worse than them, in every account. I do not tie double loops often, and I have not actually used one ever - fortunately perhaps, because they are often used in some dangerous and rescue operations, and I was lucky not to be confronted with any such situation yet...
One can, e.g., elaborate on Ashley #1408 & 1425 (and more) schemas, out of the *middle*, for interesting "twin-eye" knots --as I envision them (where the two eyes are roughly adjacent and used qua one, so to get assured behavior when loaded in either direction (as contrast w/e.g. the butterfly's asymmetry)).

That is something very interesting, which had not crossed my mind till now...We tie a symmetric bend - any symmetric bend - with a double line. Then, we connect the two lines/tails of each link, to make two bights. Then we connect one standing end of the one link to one standing end of the other link. We thus end up with a TIB double loop. ( Equivalently, we can also make the two loops in the reverse way, by connecting the two lines/standing parts of each link, and then form the TIB knot by connecting one line-tail of the one link to one line-tail of the other link.)
Ouaou...Many new possibilities emerge...I knew that the double midline loop chapter would be quite long... :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 03:28:06 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Knutern

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Video demonstration
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2015, 03:38:44 AM »
I liked this double loop's appearence so I decided to make a demonstration on how to tie this one TIB.

Link to video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81FT6RaUHw&feature=youtu.be

I'm not able to see how the Double midline loop 2 is tied because it to tight. If there exist an image of a loose variant of the knot, I'll try to demonstrate that too.
I'm aiming for knots that is secure, AND that is easy to untie.

xarax

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Re: More double midline loops
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2015, 06:36:53 AM »
   Knutern, this thread is old hat !  :)  :)
   Starting from the "eyes and ears" base ( shown in the attached picture ), tuck each "ear" first through the same-side "eye" ( to get two in-line slipped overhand knots )  and then through the other "eye".
This is not a knot.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: More double midline loops
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 11:13:33 PM »
This is significant, and IMO significantly urges that such discussions be in the Knotting Explorations forum and not Practical forum

I have no doubt whatsoever that those two double midline loops are as practical ...
And I have no intent to suggest that in explorations one will
not find things to put into practice --only that the thrust of
this thread is one of finding new ways ... , and potentially
rich in that.

 ;)