Author Topic: ABoK #1016  (Read 6641 times)

DerekSmith

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ABoK #1016
« on: January 04, 2016, 07:00:14 PM »
ABoK #1016

Mobius

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 07:42:47 AM »
Hi Derek,

I may have missed some posts relevant to the original here,  however, at the risk of discussing this knot at a tangent to intended, here is how I considered it.

The knot in final form might be useful as a 'clip on' in climbing since it is tiable in the bight. The tail would then feed (at approx.right angles) to any 'tie in the end' eye knot a climber felt happy with. The  #1016 would need to show itself non-jamming/non-slipping in both its depicted form and in 'end to end' form to be truly useful for a climber.

FWIW, I have been trialling similar style knots (e.g. TIB eye knots that are similar to a Double Dragon, Perfection Loop or Farmer's Loop in some cases).

Cheers,

mobius

Edit: I have tied the #1016 knot in 11mm kernmantle and studied it. It looks promising, however knots that really behave well need more than someone's 'thinking' . I will try it on my rig when I return from holiday (if there is interest).
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 08:27:39 AM by mobius »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 05:25:48 PM »
I write here just to point out that IMO --or at least
to some conjecture-- Ashley mis-presents this knot,
and it should be a twin-eye knot as presented as his
#1074 (although #1882 echoes the #1016 form).
At least, to the point about "should have double bearing"
for use on a hook, this satisfies that rationale; otherwise,
all I can muse re the Luce & Ward recommentation,
"for a heavy pull...", is the extra 2 diameters in the
central nipping loop --but one must question that THIS
aspect would be recognized as having some merit?!
(and not that of double bearing).

All of which is not to deny that #1016 is a valid knot
on its own sake, but one must question the alleged
purpose/history.


--dl*
====

DerekSmith

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2016, 07:58:05 PM »
BWL by Mark Gommers

KC

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2016, 05:05:12 PM »
We are also talking 3 different chapters of thought and 3 different duty ranges.
Also possible angle of pulls in #1074; but also offering double bearing.
.
The pic of the standard Bowline now posted on this topic shows a HH choke ring/cuckold for securing w/2 Nips on collar around S.Part.
.
The load in the eye of Bowline, pulls 50% to the cuckold/choke ring hold as lock ;
and
50% to the collar as release leg that get's nipped 2x by other 50% cuckhold/choker(above).
.
This eye support form as a force flow thru the line is more seen in #1074.
.
#1016 'echoed' in #1082 as separate form; both pulls of the single loaded eye feed likewise 50/50 but both to the S.Part previous to cuckhold/choker(normal Bowline 1 leg goes to cuchold/choker, other leg of eye support pulls from above same).

.
So, though tied and called a Bowline, as far as eye support is more of OH w/bight fed thru that would be better ungraded to fig.8 family, dbl.bearing.bowline or at least RT on hook for some strength gain /wear evening (IMO).
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples.
~ Please excuse the interruption; thanx -the mgmt.~

agent_smith

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 04:37:31 AM »
Looks like Derek is no longer the 'dunny man'...instead, he is the 'knot botherer'.

#1016 Bowline is a collapsed version of #1074 Bowline with a bight (which is also in contrast to #1080 Bowline on a bight) - where in #1016 the 'ongoing eye leg' is collapsed.

I had considered contrasting these 3 eye knots in my Bowlines paper (#1016 / #1074 / #1080).

Ashley's depiction of #1016 Being similar to a transformation exercise carried out by Xarax on #1080 - where one of the eye's is collapsed.

I too consider Dan Lehman's words...with regards to the alleged purpose/benefits of #1016 in its purported use.

Mark G
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 04:38:26 AM by agent_smith »

jarnos

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2021, 02:11:59 AM »
As for #1074, if you load only the first formed loop i.e. the one that you would have on a regular bowline, the knot is both TIB and PET, which is very handy at times. The knot could be used e.g. in Trucker's Hitch and in Versatackle to avoid threading. Also firefighters seem to use it, like told in the video. Naming the knot is problematic as we do not want to use the same name for different knots with different ways of usage. Maybe Inline Bowline is good for this one? (I am not a native English speaker.) Or bowline with a bight collar?

« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 07:12:43 AM by jarnos »
Jarno Suni

DerekSmith

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Re: ABoK #1016
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2021, 10:24:51 PM »
Nice video Jarnie - keep them up.

Derek