Author Topic: A crossing knot link bowline  (Read 9645 times)

Kost_Greg

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Re: A crossing knot link bowline
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2020, 07:06:14 PM »
                                                                         A strange equivalence         

The knot structure illustrated in the first three images, is a two collar double eye knot, EEL and TIB, but not a bowline. The nipping loop, does not constrict both collar legs, one of them is not being fed through the nip, but it is being driven through the crossing knot collar, near the eye.

A bizzare but rather easy tsansition from this instance, to an Eskimo bowline on a bight might take place, if one pulls both the returning eye legs, working out the slack of the initial eye. A proper dressing is required, to achieve the appropriate Eskimo's `tresse`, shown in fourth image.

Undoubtedly, this alternate knot geometry presented here, is alleged to have an edge in terms of jam resistance, in relation to Eskimo, but is this property sufficient in order to brake the symmetry of an Eskimo structure with a `tresse` like this? Tough to answer :-\.

Note, that the transition from the Eskimo to this structure is not so obvious.

A handedness alternation of the crossing knot collar, produces similar results.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 07:08:33 PM by tsik_lestat »
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Kost_Greg

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Re: A crossing knot link bowline
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2021, 06:20:05 PM »
                                                       Abok#1443, single carrick, link bowline

First image, illustrates a 1443 based initial dressing state, tied as eyeknot of course, and a pseudo final energy state, not the final energy state Ashley depicts for 1443, but a transformed equivalent topology (for Ashley's result, just load the initial dressing state from the Spart and the returning eye leg).

In any case, these "half knot configurations", as i call them, with the 1033 components in a reverse usage (simple loop as nip, crossing knot as collar, in contrast with 1033), could not be considered as being the stablest forms, while Ashley points out, that the corresponding bend, slipped with medium loads.

This is an attempt of completing the depicted pseudo final energy state by constructing a stable bowline structure.

For those who are not into initial dressing states or transformations, they could simply insert a bight down through an S nipping loop, feeding then WE down through this very bight by capturing nipping loop's crossing point.

The next coherent step is to form the collar and come back up through the nipping structure.To track down the tibness, is to rethread WE down through the collar structure channel, in a side by side two end orientation, as shown in the next three images.

Advantages

1. A TIB bowline.

2. Three rope diameter in the nipping loop.

3. There is a non-jamming collar due to the crossing knot link geometry, which grips its continuation.

4. If you hold the tug end and pull the returning eye leg, you create a nipping loop slack which i find a useful property for the untying process.

Disadvantages

1. A rather complex collar structure, in particular at its link segment.

2. I'm not so sure about the EEL ability, because due to the fourth property mentioned previously, it may not be wise to load the knot from the WE, in reverse.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 06:57:03 PM by tsik_lestat »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: A crossing knot link bowline
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2021, 06:28:53 PM »
                                                                         A strange equivalence         

The knot structure illustrated in the first three images,
is a two collar double eye knot, EEL and TIB,
but not a bowline. The nipping loop, does not constrict both collar legs,
one of them is not being fed through the nip,
but it is being driven through the crossing knot collar, near the eye.
It has a central nipping loop, ergo => *bowline*!

 :)

enhaut

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Re: A crossing knot link bowline
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2021, 03:00:59 PM »
@tsik_lestat
Hi,
It is a nice and well-balanced loop. At some point we have a clover leaf likeness, you could even have named it "Triphullon Loop" for the nice Greek ring of it.
I have used my jamming prone rope to tie and untie this knot, I found out that the loose collar gives us an easy access to the nipping structure and therefore capabilities in the untying process.
Maybe a TIB method would be simpler to tie this loop?to be seen.
Good idea to present the half-knot, it was of a great help for me.
The image shows a loose state and indicates my preferred route to slacken the knot.
Please excuse the poor quality of my phone camera.
jr.

Image Tsik_lestat knot loose state
Image Tr?fle = Clover
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 03:09:12 PM by enhaut »

Kost_Greg

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Re: A crossing knot link bowline
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2021, 08:54:44 PM »
Hello Enhaut, the "triphullon" or "trefoil" descriptor, due to the clover likeness, is indeed a nice conception that coordinates well with this particular topology, but i'm afraid it is taken, as i have attached it to another eyeknot, which i have not yet presented, maybe later in some other thread.

The nub, appears to be pliable enough to slacken, precisely in the order you have described, when heavily loaded, while if you isolate the "supposed complex" collar component, you will realize that it is simply a figure eight, in a slightly different geometry.

There is another form i have encountered, with only two rope diameters inside the nipping loop, but i believe it is inferior to this structure.

A double version of this knot had made an appearence here: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6451.msg43652#msg43652

Many thanks for giving it a try!
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