Author Topic: A new knot?  (Read 23061 times)

Tom

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A new knot?
« on: May 30, 2007, 07:11:11 PM »
Hello Knot Folk,
I'm new here so please forgive any breach of etiquette. I think I have discovered a new bend, but don't know how to check. It is very simple to tie, so I imagine others have tied it before, but it would be very exciting for me if not. I cannot find it in the marvellous Ashley Book of Knots (but that is a very big book to hunt through), nor in any other knotty books that I can find. It does not slip or jam, and is easy to untie - decorative but rather bulky. Here's a picture: the pink rope has the single version, the purple rope has the same bend doubled.
Come on folk - burst my bubble!
Tom x

roo

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2007, 07:19:49 PM »
Hello Knot Folk,
I'm new here so please forgive any breach of etiquette. I think I have discovered a new bend, but don't know how to check. It is very simple to tie, so I imagine others have tied it before, but it would be very exciting for me if not. I cannot find it in the marvellous Ashley Book of Knots (but that is a very big book to hunt through), nor in any other knotty books that I can find. It does not slip or jam, and is easy to untie - decorative but rather bulky. Here's a picture: the pink rope has the single version, the purple rope has the same bend doubled.
Come on folk - burst my bubble!
Tom x

While an image of the finished product is nice, can you show a picture or a diagram showing how the knot is tied?  Thanks.
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DerekSmith

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2007, 10:26:23 PM »
Sorry Tom,

I cannot tell from the picture how the cord flows through the knot.  Could you open the knot up a bit and photograph it again.

Also, you say it is very easy to tie.  The finished knot does not show how you made it, so some description perhaps with pictures of the stages would be very helpful.

FInally, how did you come across it??

Derek

Tom

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2007, 11:39:35 AM »
Thanks Roo, and Thanks Derek! I've tried to make a diagram, but it came out hopeless (is there special knot drawing software that would make that easier?). Here is a pic showing the stages. Two loops, with opposing coils, and the working ends side by side - then pass the working ends over the opposite loop, and back through. Pull on the ends to tighten. I made it by mistake when trying to remember Hunter's Bend, but frankly it seems a better knot. It doesn't jam or shake free, and many loops can be added for decorative effect. Easy to untie, too, even after as much strain as I can muster. Do let me know what you think...
Tom x

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 05:51:29 PM »
I think I have discovered a new bend, but don't know how to check. It is very simple to tie, so I imagine others have tied it before, but it would be very exciting for me if not.  ... 
Come on folk - burst my bubble!
An other has.  Poof!  Does your bubble burst that easily?
Should it matter so much whether another has similarly configured cordage?

Just over a quarter century ago (1981-09-03), I illustrated the "double" version you show.
I might not have made the single version, as I was looking to form and hold a bit of
extended gradual curvature in the SPart upon entering the knot--and this requires
some distance/material.

It looks close to the reverse of one of the Symmetric Bends presented by
Roger Miles in his so-named book (he gives 60 such mostly unpresented knots).

Re-visiting this structure, I'm led to try a different sort of doubling--to wit:
upon tucking the end through the first loop, take it around and back through
again, before finishing with the tuck out through the other SPart's loop.
This I think gives some better padding to the SParts at entry as they
are bent around two parts of rope.

You can be happy to have discovered this, irrespective of others' ventures.   ;)

Thanks,
--dl*
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Tom

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2007, 12:22:12 PM »
Pop! I had imagined glories akin to those of Dr. Hunter, and to be hoist shoulder-high by the Guild! I am crestfallen. Thank you for your very informative reply, Dan, and I'll try the variation you suggest. I shall consider the single version to be 'Tom's Bend' and tie as many things with it as I can, even if noone else adopts it, or considers it original. I'll continue tugging at my rope by the fireside in the hope that tangles of interest will appear, and let you know if they do.
Thank you all,
Tom x

DerekSmith

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2007, 07:42:16 PM »
Hi Tom,

Thanks for bringing us Tom's Knot.  You have a delightful turn of phrase and I hope that while you sit by the fireside tugging your tackle or tightening your timber hitch, that you will think to drop in here with a comment or a new 'foundling' from time to time.

Have you 'played' with this knot yet to see how it reconfigures and if any of those configurations confer advantage or danger?

Although it is fairly easy to tie, have you worked out any rapid (wrap - twist - tug) ways to tie it yet?

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2007, 09:55:54 PM »
Pop! I had imagined glories akin to those of Dr. Hunter, and to be hoist shoulder-high by the Guild!
Well, you have that, somewhat:  my discovery of SmitHunter's bend came in '73,
and seeing that on the cover of The Morrow Guide to Knots led me to
the Times, Budworth, & the Guild!  But Edward preceded me in finding this, yet
Phil Smith published it even earlier.  Not so much hoisting on shoulders,
or the successive standing upon shoulders to ... , but ending up merely
shoulder-to-shoulder for want of information!

--dl*
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KnotTom

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2007, 01:57:47 PM »
Hello all,

I'm a friend of Tom's.  He's unfortunately resting up at King's Hospital after an unfortunate incident on his motorbike/with a car.  Thankfully he'll eventually be fine but he's got a rather large hole and not many attached bones in his left leg.  His knots however are holding up all manner of items at the hospital to compensate for the lack of NHS equipment - his drip hangs by a knot from his television monitor, he's been lassooing his foot to exercise it backwards and forwards! He's been lending string to the nurses.  He's secured himself an end bed with a window and seems quite settled - current thoughts are he'll be there for about six weeks.  In the meantime, Tom asked me to send his best and ask Dan, which of the bends/knots in Symmetric Bends did you think his may be the reverse of?  We're trying to keep him busy!

Thanks for your help.

Emma

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2007, 06:46:49 PM »
Hello all,

I'm a friend of Tom's.  He's unfortunately resting up at King's Hospital after an unfortunate incident on his motorbike/with a car.
...   In the meantime, Tom asked me to send his best and ask Dan, which of the bends/knots in Symmetric Bends did you think
his may be the reverse of?  We're trying to keep him busy!
Dear Emma, I'm sure I give the IGKT's sentiment in wishing Tom well & the best!
(I hesitate now on "quick" recovery, since it seems Tom is using his current limitations
for indulging what Ashley imaginatively called "an adventure in unlimited space"
--but still we have good wishes, whichever way things go.   :)  )

Reviewing Miles's book now, I see that it is his Symmetric bend A15, Sleeping Beauty,
that is the reverse of Tom's, with also the swapped position (laterally) of the ends--a detail.
B11 is a similar knot, but which is the reverse of an improved SmitHunter's bend (which
Harry Asher first presented but dismissed as "unimportant", not realizing its superiority).
It's surprising that Roger didn't consider the reverse, as he chides Harry for similar lack
of consideration re B11.  (But, my goodness, if one goes to full consideration of knots,
tempus fugit!)

Cheers,
--dl*
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KnotTom

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2007, 11:52:27 AM »
Many thanks Dan for such a speedy response.  Tom has now ascertained that the knot you referred to is not his Knot so he's very delighted.  We're heading to visit him this afternoon and he's avidly "splicing" we hear.  His recovery has speeded up with many an operation and some skingrafting (apparently knots wouldn't suffice) and we're hoping he will be out and back on the forum within a couple of weeks.  He's now in a wheelchair which is a great improvement on being stuck in bed.
Thanks again for answering question so fast.  It was a great boost to Tom.  Emma.

knudeNoggin

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2007, 09:08:18 PM »
His recovery has speeded up with many an operation and some skingrafting (apparently knots wouldn't suffice)
and we're hoping he will be out and back on the forum within a couple of weeks.
He's now in a wheelchair which is a great improvement on being stuck in bed.
Thanks again for answering question so fast.  It was a great boost to Tom.  Emma.
"a couple of WEEKS" !!  Oh, dear!  That is a longer stay in hospital care than
I'd thought.  Perhaps the IGKTers here can be of further morale-boosting &
time-filling help:  if we have a mailing address (hardmail, i.e.), we might send
along wishes AND some knotty material for Tom's, er, therapeutic benefit.
--such as a copy of some of Roger Miles's knots, and others.
:)

(If you prefer, versus public posting, you could PM info to me and to others
who PM you requesting it.  --though I don't think SPAM will follow such an address.)

*kN*
« Last Edit: August 10, 2007, 09:09:40 PM by knudeNoggin »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2007, 05:28:24 AM »
Many thanks Dan for such a speedy response.  ...  We're heading to visit him this afternoon
and he's avidly "splicing" we hear. ...  He's now in a wheelchair which is a great improvement
on being stuck in bed.
Emma, maybe Tom can gain some understanding of the knotting that the surgeons
& other staff do in the hospital?  I know that they have various types of suture
materials--pretty fiddling fine stuff--, but also some cotton tape such as might
be tied to an endotracheal (I think that's the term) tube and around a patient's
head.
Check you PMail here for offers of knot-gifts for Tom, to keep him delighted.

--dl*
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Tom

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2007, 01:10:48 PM »
Dear sweet Guildmembers! What kind words you send! Sorry to say, though, I have only just received them - Excellent Emma nipped off to the States shortly after her last post so I never did hear of the thoughtful offers of knot-based therapies. Her estimate of two-weeks further tarry in the hospital was, unfortunately, not in accord with the surgeon's wishes and I am only just out - with the most extraordinary contraption attached to my mangled leg, and a bumper pot of morphine. I still can't go home because I live at the top of four flights of stairs. Taken in by my generous papa, I am allowed to recline (at an alarming rake) in his sitting room. In hospital, they kindly fitted me with wheels, but not grapples, so I am usually confined downstairs - this rare trip up to the computer is thanks to a team of navvies.
Knotwise, Emma's assessment is fair: ropery of all sorts turned out to be useful on the ward, particularly given the shortage of dripstands (I had, at one point six tubes running in, and the entire ward had only four stands!). Bowlines and Highwayman's hitches for toe loops (exciting the ex-Marine physio!), Midshipman's hitches (aka Tautline hitches, unless I miss my guess) were handy throughout, and I whisked up a handsome Square Chain Sennit handle with which to winch my mostly-meccano limb at swabbing time. Tom's Bend even found a use in curtain repair! (oh, and surgeons really do use surgeons' bends - one can see a nice example if one x-rays my knee)
Look, knotters, I don't want to sound grabby, but I would be SO happy to receive any of the voiced knotty treats here in my recuperative den - it'll be long after Christmas before I can reach my library, let alone a chandlery! Despite the morphine, I still crave advancement in my tying skills - but I have no idea what PMail (PM?) is. I gather it is some sort of privacy mechanism, and it does seem a little foolish to put my poor father's address up for all to see, but if any of these kind knotty offers still stand, could someone explain how I go about PMing?
I already feel so snug in this nexus of nexuses - how glad I am to have found the Guild!

Dan_Lehman

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Re: A new knot?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2007, 03:07:12 PM »
Tom, you say " I have no idea what PMail (PM?) is":
it is "private message" of "... mail" and comes on many forums, such as this.
When you log in to the Forum, you should see your username listed in the
upper left of the window with "you have NN messages, MM are new", and
if you click on "messages" you will be delivered to your PM window, et cetera.

--dl*
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