International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum
General => Chit Chat => Topic started by: Lasse_C on May 30, 2006, 02:48:58 PM
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Recruiting new members seems to be a more or less universal problem for organizations and associations. It might be that the number of members is low or the average age of the members is high - or a combination of both - but in either way, new members are desired.
In organizations as IGKT, there is also the matter of taking care of a craft, art and cultural heritage! Knotting is one of mankinds oldest crafts, what we do is based on a tradition literally thousands of years old!
This issue touches on "the Guild Mission", but I would like to outline the question a bit more:
* Do we want to recruit more members? (I suppose we do?)
* What kind of new members do we want? Just anyone to fill the ranks, or...?
* What can we offer them? (=Why should they want to join?) If we want to attract youngsters, for example, how do we make knotting "cool" (or whatever term they presently use ;))?
I do not have any answers to these questions, I have just been thinking about it, and thought I should toss the questions into the air and see what the rest of you had to say.
Lasse C
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We do 9 or 10 craft shows per year, where I demonstrate and sell my pyrography, and Jeff demonstrates and sells knotting and ropework. He usually has quite a crowd around him, specially when he's using his small ropemaking machine. A lot of his demonstrations are aimed at kids, and he talks about the Guild and the importance of knots in our lives. We always have the Guild pamphlet displayed and over the years have managed to get a few people interested enough to join. We might have even managed to recruite someone on our recent cruise!!
Lesley
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Thanks for a good set of questions Lasse!
I do not have the "answers" either, but I would suggest that:
1. I believe that we do want more members, if only to maintain our status quo of the number of members it takes to be a self-sustaining voluntary organization and, not to be maudling but, as older members gradually ravel off the mortal coil (our members are none of us getting any younger! :'() we need younger members to continue the traditions & ideals, come up with new uses and types and keep the practice of knotting alive and well.
2. Knotting has, in my limited knowledge of the practice, normally incorporated teaching others the skills that have been learned by others over the years. We know that they cannot simply be passed on by reading books, although even that could be achieved with a good teacher (one practised in the art of education), so I would posit that we need members who are interested, willing to learn or to pass on information that they themselves have learned, and committed to sharing :-*. The attraction for new members would necessarily be a desire to know about knotting, so that should be a foregone conclusion as to what type of member - one that wants to know about knotting.
3. To attract new members, I think we should offer training in the many practices of knotting ;). We have a large number of members who do this privately but, for whatever reason, we do not have a formal training section within our own Guild. In the original purposes of a Guild, the passing of information to apprentices was paramount. Those Guilds were practicing masters of the craft already being paid for their work, and this (teaching and apprentice) was considered their payback for what they had themselves learned. Our own Guild is not structured in the same manner because we are volunteers, nor with quite the same purpose, but I feel that we should nevertheless be offering training. Now, training is not necessarily the word that comes to mind as an attractant, so maybe we could devise a series of "master classes" around the world-wide membership, to which/whom young people could go for information? They would be run by members of the ilk of a Brian Fields ;D or any other of our fine members whose passion for knotting comes through as a shining beacon, in a setting that attracts new members, like the shoreside, or the campfire or the gymnasium? Certainly young people respond well to advertising, so perhaps we should advertise? Maybe offer something free, such as membership for six months or a free page of stickers of knots (for young members) or a piece of line, whipped both ends for practice or... any other ideas? ???
Centrally, I think it is up to us as members to start the ball rolling, write to the President, write to our Council members - you have their names and addresses in the Membership handbook, so use your own writing skills to request an action committee or whatever other formal structure should be used as a guide, be set up to enable our members to go out and do good. Seek guidance, seek direction, seek out the answers and write to the PTB! 8) It is hard to ignore letters coming across your doormat, whereas one-way communication across the ether or the internet only serves one end of the communication and is not nearly as satisfying or productive.
That's my two-cents worth - thanks for asking! :D
SquareRigger
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Well, unless we want the guild to fade out entirely (eventually) from attrition, we'll be wanting new members. Plus, new ideas all that makes the group more interesting (and gives us more resources! 8).
From the more practical, indeed, crucial perspective, the guild offers knowledge about safety and practical use. From working safely at heights to best practices WRT your cordage that will keep your mast from falling down at a bad time.
Across the historical disciplines, researchers have only recently started paying attention to the influence and importance of textile items (which are the first to decay and disappear from archaeological sites). From recreating chariots to forensic analysis, the guild has much to contribute there.
From the more decorative perspective, macrame and Asian knotting are on the rise.
We offer them knowledge and resources. We teach who comes. We attract them by being ... promiscuous. We go where they are (craft shows, boat/fishing/climbing shows, SCA, guide/scouts, etc). We write articles for magazines, books, and the local paper. We announce our accomplishments, achievements and discoveries to all and sundry.
We help as many who ask as we can.
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I and a small team of members with our Editor have just spent 3 days at the Crick British Waterways Boat Show demonstrating, teaching, making fenders and splicing ropes for people, as well as entertaining those not so 'knotty' as ourselves and the children, with a few little rope tricks a rope making machine.
We had quite the worst site I have ever experienced, the whole area was awash with mud, the weather more like February than the end of May, plus a large industrial fire causing the closure of the roads to the site - BUT still the public came and apart from signing up 4 new members (1 a junior, who we all assumed was a member already!) we sold Guild Publications and collected a few pounds in donations for the Guild.
The purpose of that preamble is not to blow our own trumpets but to follow this thread as to why people join the IGKT. I find that in the majority of the cases here in the UK, and it was certainly evident at this show, the main reason for joining is that they want to 'Get together with other knotting folk' and exchange ideas and learn on a one-to-one basis, having failed with the book method in many cases.
I hope we don't let them (or ourselves) down now that they have joined.
Gordon
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Just some thoughts/ couple of ideas, based on the idea of recruiting youths:
Might I suggest finding a way to work with cub scouts and boy scouts. They are a natural way to gain new members. U.S. Cub scouts have to learn new knots each year to progress through ranks. This could be at a high level or locally with packs and troops. (my experience to this point is with cubs, not the older boy scouts). Encouraging kids to make any kind of knot is a step in the right direction.
Does the IGKT have an option to join as a family instead of as an adult or youth individual? (I don't know the answer to this). This could gain members that you might miss for a couple of reasons. For example, for many kids, just being part of a group is intriguing to them. So, in my case, if I joined myself, you have one new member, if I join as a family, you have five new members. Admittedly, one would have no interest in knotting, but my three sons, two of whom are interested and one too young yet to know, would now be members also.
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Welcome Amphiprion,
Yes we have family membership, and also group membership.
We try to get those people who are into knots to join the IGKT, but we also need to offer what they want. It is not usefull to get a new member only to loose it next year, dissatisfied because they did not get what they thought they were promised. Or we need to learn to promise what we can deliver.
You, and your family, are welcome to become IGKT members, you can find the details on the main part of this site:
http://www.igkt.net/membership/index.html
Willeke
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I understand that it may not seem beneficial to gain a member today and loose them a year from now. However, if you introduce kids at an early age, you have a chance to show them something new and exciting. That is a benefit in and of itself, regardless if someone joins or not. Hopefully, they will join and grow with the organization.
To be fair, I have no idea what measures the guild is taking to increase membership. I was going through the posts and saw this topic and it interests me. Membership is a challenge for all organizations, I know this first hand. The particular local kids group(not related to knot tying) I participate with was having the same problems, until a year ago. We doubled our ranks in a year by focusing on what the members and their families would respond to, by recruiting strong leadership, and by aggressively "advertising" who we are. Again, to be fair, I'm talking about going from a group of about twenty kids to a group of over forty, not hundreds of people.
To sum up, how does someone know if they are interested in an aspect of knotting if they are not exposed to it?
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I emailed the NAB to see if they had a family and a group membership, and currently, unlike the IGKT, they do not. Please do not read any criticism at all into this, I just wanted to post what I found out since I broached the question to begin with. The NAB secretary was friendly and helpful in the email sent back to me, and that is important to me as someone considering joining a group. I will most likely join myself and share the info I gain as I go with the cub pack I work with and my own kids.
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As the Program Director of a Boy Scout Camp in the US I can guarantee that Boy Scouts are interested in knotting, not only practical knots that they can use for Pioneering projects, but also decorative knots. I just taught a couple of scouts the other day how to capsize a grief knot into a two-strand wall knot and they became alive with excitement and wanted to know more! In the ten years that I have worked at summer camps I have learned most of what I know from interaction with experienced knotters, and hold these skills more dear than those that I have learned from books. I am seriously considering joining the guild (with university expenses through the roof it's hard for me to find any extra cash lying around), and think that the oral and personal teaching of knots should be the primary goal and activity of the guild. It's great for members and experienced knotters to sit around and discuss theory and advance the craft, but unless these skills are passed on they might be lost forever. In the last few months the BSA has made changes to the requirements for the Pioneering Merit Badge that have essentially stripped it down to being a little more than what scouts need to know to reach the First Class rank. I have been trying to contact our national advancement committee to tell them what I think of the changes, but i am curious what any of you think about the changes. You can see the old requirements as well as the changes at: http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/boyscout/advchanges06.html#Pioneer
My major complaint is the change in the number of knots now required and the loss of actually building a full-size anchor for a pioneering project. The loss of several knots is by far the most troubling, especially when you consider how few people can tie much beyond an overhand or reef knot. If there are any other US Scouters out there who feel as I do, let me know! Thanks, I just wanted to chime in
Chuck
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I don't know if this is relevant, but I have just realised about the amount of non-advertising by the I.G.K.T. There were many places I visited in 2004 in England & America where it may have been advantageous to have a bit of info available. All the place visited were to look at rope work. e.g. Dockyards, Muesuems, Historic Ships, Clubs. In none of these places did I see mention of I.G.K.T.
Just wondering if some leaflets and the Symbol at some of these places might help. An idea?
Sledge ???
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Hi Sledge,
I agree that there is not enough advertising, and I would encourage you, as an IGKT Member, to go to those places you mention and do the following:
Find the person responsible for allowing advertising placement
Set an appointment to talk with them
Go talk to them about our organization and seek advertising and product placement space
Put up advertising with a web-site address or other contact information that is monitored regularly by a volunteer
Regularly re-stock the leaflets with new ones that are paid for by donation or your own money and pick up the trash that arises from the discards
Monitor that advertising for effectiveness
We put on demonstrations, exhibitions, training, volunteer our time and make sterling efforts to get our information out to those who like to know about it - we could always do better and advertising may be one way to do that. If you do the math of dividing 6,000,000,000 by 1200 members worldwide to get some idea of how many people we each have to reach out to (that's 5 million people each IF we each do our part) you get some idea of how much effort it takes to do what you are suggesting, so go out and do your part! Of course, we get nobody from advertising that we do not put in place, so it doesn't mean we should not do it, and, we know, it is not necessary to reach out to everyone in the world - that would be silly.
As one of the people who has been making some efforts now and in the past to reach out to people by demonstrating, exhibiting, teaching and volunteering my time, I can tell you that the idea of advertising is nowhere near as good as being there, by a factor of thousands. We do need to advertise, but let's not do so with anything less than two or three members demonstrating what it is all about, so that people want to take part. We are not selling cars, we are inviting others to take part in an interesting hobby, occupation, craft or science, depending on your point of view. Let's be there to share that art, rather than just putting a symbol or logo in place, and then watching and hoping for responses.
Thanks for a good suggestion! ;D
SR
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Hmmm... Interesting discussion.
I feel we need to, in our minds, keep the distinction that we are not talking about recruiting new members is the meaning that we should find them and persuade them to join! As someone pointed out, we are offering them to join us. It is not up to us to make them interested or curious in knotting. To make ourselves known to those who are interested or curious in another thing.
As squarerigger points out, the world´s population leaves about 5 000 000 to each one of us, so that task can be just as great as we make it. Here I think that each and everyone has a responsibility to DO our part! Not reaching all of those 5 million people (not that I would stop anyone who tries! ;)) but to mention IGKT when we talk to people asking questions, get interviewed by media, etc, and so forth. That is an effort we can all afford.
Lasse C
(Presently on vacation, and not much in front of the computer... ;D)
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hi, i'm new here and had just posted some questions and was looking at what the membership would offer and this is what i've come to the conclusion or thoughts from someone that's thinking of joining.
first and foremost, there's no branch here in toronto, least none that i could find. I know the basic knots being a sailor and a rock climber, i'd like to learn more about fancy and decorative knots. Reading books helps but nothing compared to hands on training with someone experienced near by. the news letter is nice but the main thing i guess is some support from the group is what i'm looking for more than anything else.
my 2 cents
take care
sam
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Hi Sam
There is a Branch of the IGKT in North America called the North American Branch and they have a web-site at igktnab.org (http://igktnab.org). They have meetings from time to time through local chapters of the Branch - would it be difficult for you to get there to New England (Quincy, Massachusetts)? How about starting up a group yourself by going to a local Yacht Club, Sea Scouts meeting, Boy Scouts meeting, climbers meeting, etc to recruit new members? Also, take a look at KHWW.net (http://KHWW.net) and join the group for very good instructions on making fancier knots. Hope this helps you! ;D
SR
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Hi Sam,
There are about 10 members in Ontario (including Robert Chisnall - the climbing authour) - Scarborough, Kingston, Waterloo, Cherry Valley, Omemee, Mississauga, Hamilton, Ottawa and London.
When you join, you will be given a membership list, with the names and addresses and phone numbers of these members. The rest is up to you.
Also, not very far (in relative terms) just across the boarder in Michigan, is the NAB President and a small group in the Detroit area.
Gordon
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Viewing forum and reading posts I found this discussion.
May I ask - what you think about new national branch?
I mean - I come from Poland and now is onone of IGKT member or knotting expert here. I work to build this (web site in polish started - a little workshops also).
Could you explain me - how to join new national branch to the IGKT???
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Gordon
Make it 11 members in Ontario, I have just joined. I am in Toronto (North York), looking forward to getting some excellent tips on local supplies, sharing experiences and putting them to work on 'my' boat.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
That sounds like enough members to form a separate Branch if you were so minded? Good luck with getting everybody together and do let me know if there is anything I can do to help with advice, suggestions, etc. Bonne chance!
SR ;D
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Gordon
I think it would be interesting to get together. How do I go about getting their URL's or other wise contacting them?
Paul
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Paul,
Look in your IGKT Member's handbook and write to them from the addresses given, whether they are URLs, e-mails or street addresses.
SR
PS - Gordon is on his way to the States at the moment, so he may be out of touch for a while.
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SR
Thanks, I'll wait for my handbook. I never got a reply when I asked about paying, but that was just a few days ago, so I await, in limbo.
Paul
PS I filled out my profile (I think)
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This is a topic I am most interested in myself. I have found that recruiting new members is a hard one to do. That is because of the generational gaps that we all meet with in the field of recruiting. The age of the person(s) is such a gap that when you are recruiting, you have to go from an 8yr old to someone that is between 30yrs old and 60, 70yrs old. The different maturity levels is the hardest thing to compensate for while in discussion.
On the other hand grabbing the potential recruit and showing them how to tie their first decrotive knot ie(diamond knot) simple enough, and they actually tie it after several tries, they are either hooked, or not. The average age of the Guild is predominately and gracefully about 30 to 60yrs of age. I believe that to be a liberal, deductive guess at the average age.
We must consider this situation to be important, for if we wish the Guilds around the world to continue and strive forward to the future, we must find creative, clever ways to recruite new members, or the Guilds will dissolve away with each member that passes away. In that matter, with each memeber that passes away, there goes their experience and knowlege of knot tying. I have this perception of experience from when my great grandmother passed away, ie(she knew how to make biscuts from scratch that were out of this world.) She never shared the secret reciepe with anyone in the family. Now, she's gone and no one in the family can make those fabulous biscuts anymore. So, if we don't recruit and share what we know about knot tying, knot tying will be lost forever.
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Hi Knothead,
Try this for an idea to engage the young whilst preserving your skill and knowledge.
Oldies are likely to have a mobile phone that my kids call a 'Ma Boswell' -- a brick that does one thing -- phone. The younger generation by contrast are likely to carry a videophone and know how to use it (witnessed by the amazing rise in YouTube clips).
So, get some youngsters to video you tying knots (preferably with a commentary from you), then get them to post the clips either onto YouTube or better still into the Guild knot database wiki http://igkt.pbwiki.com/ using the new video feature.
By engaging the youngsters through a route that interests them (their mobiles and the internet), you might just lead them to an interest in the knot topic. At the same time you are saving your skills and knowledge for posterity.
Derek
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Hmmm, now that's a creative and clever idea. I will have to experiment(ehehehehehe).... Good one... ;D
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Viewing forum and reading posts I found this discussion.
May I ask - what you think about new national branch?
I mean - I come from Poland and now is onone of IGKT member or knotting expert here. I work to build this (web site in polish started - a little workshops also).
Could you explain me - how to join new national branch to the IGKT???
Someone please answer this one :)
I too would like to knkow the answers to this .....
Regards
Nils G.
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I think you would have to talk to Nigel Harding about this one.
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Dear Takler and Nils,
Forming a new Branch is straightforward - you read the IGKT constitution, draft your own new Branch constitution based on that of the IGKT, set down the rules to be used in your own Branch constitution (dues, meeting dates and times, election rules, etc), elect or co-opt IGKT members for officer and Board positions and send the whole package to Bruce Turley, Membership Secretary of the IGKT, or Dave Walker, Secretary of the IGKT. For your information it is necessary (or at least highly recommended) that you have separate Board members, Officers and members. If you have a Board of five and three Officers, they will all be IGKT members, so the number of members to form a Branch would be eight. After sending the package of elected or co-opted members (with their permission signatures) names in the various positions together with a copy of the signed and dated constitution and rules, those documents will be ratified (or not) by the Council and your Branch officers and Board will be notified accordingly. If not ratified, changes will be requested which, if successful, will result in ratification of your Branch. That was how we did it when forming the Pacific Americas Branch (PAB) ten years ago and it seems to work! ;D
Lindsey
IGKTPAB President
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Knothead said "I think you would have to talk to Nigel Harding about this one."
Can I just point out that Nigel turned over the reins of Secretary to Dave Walker just over a year ago.
Lesley
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Thx. Now I'll need to trackk down the Norwegian IGKT members and start a conversation about this topic..
Regards
Nils G.
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Adopt a Ship
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Adopt a Ship
Is my suggestion to stimulate activity, interest and gain new members.
If I ever really join the IGKT (I am in limbo it seems) and get my book I'll contact all the members in Ontario and get them to adopt a ship (the one I work on, the Empire Sandy, Canada's and North America's largest Topsail Schooner) We will then do some superlative rope work aboard for the pleasure, edification and delight of the owner, passengers and crew, not to mention credit to the IGKT
If I ever get out of limbo and get my book, I'll let you know how this all turns out
Paul
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Can a recent recruit throw in a two-pennorth?
I am one of Dave Walker's recruits - in a roundabout way. I saw him at the Liverpool Maritime Museum about 3 years ago, where it occurred to me that an knotting demonstration might be useful to my then-six-year-old would-be-firefighter (some members might remember my posts from that year). I signed my son up as a junior member for his birthday, with the intention that this would be a very longterm gift (until he's old enough to appreciate it and take over paying for it himself) and then discovered a major flaw in my plan:
I had so much fun learning about knots to try and teach him, that I ended up joining myself after a prolonged (nearly a year) guilty conscience of NOT being a member (I claim the necessity of waiting for my birthday, so I could treat myself to the membership).
I was astounded to discover that my teenager knew more about knots than I thought she did, because she did scoubidou (that balance is pretty level now, and tipping in my favour) and as you can see from my post on lanyards, I'm hoping to introduce simple knotting, plaiting and sennits to a group which probably believes they can never do them: children with manual dexterity problems. Because scoubidou was a craze here in the last few years, I have an advantage that most of them have seen it, and tried it, even if they failed abysmally at it. I also had one of those folding wooden plate drainers on my sink until recently. Various moulds had attacked the feet, and it had to be put in the bin. Then I dragged it out of the bin, knocked it apart for that beautifully ready-made dowling in 3 lengths, and returned the remains back to the bin. The dowling dried out nicely on the overnight radiators.
So, I have readymade dowls, a supply of cord, and a target group to aim at. I pray that God will give the go-ahead on it. Maybe another member with time on their hands would like to approach their local school and see if there are children who could use this sort of help?
Using phones to video techniques and upload them is a great idea. Hppefully the teenager will get hooked as they help you, and if they make their own lanyard for their own mobile/mp3/ipod/gadget then you'll be able to encourage them that look! Hey! You made something neat, and you did it without any technological aids at all (except for videoing it). Something I really lament is how technology has stolen children's fingers.
If you want a really way-out idea for new members, I keep getting this thought:
If I can learn to tie a solomon bar/portuguese sennit with my eyes closed, all bar the pulling through of ends, couldn't a blind person learn to do the same? And how many other knots could a Braille reader learn, just because their fingers are sensitive enough to follow the pattern?
Hmm, guess this ended up as a ten-pennorth again :)
Regards
Glenys Chew
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PS - Could the Guild put a simple flyer or leaflet on the downloads section. for small memebers like myself to print and give people?
Regards
Glenys
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Hello Glenys,
I think "ten-pennorth" is a significant understatement.
Yours is an idea worthy of serious consideration by the Guild Council to be put forward to the organisations who cater for helping the blind. I do not know any blind people, but I do work occasionally in a 'Sheltered Workshop', so I am well aware of the great value that individuals, who would normally be shunned by the 'work industry', are able to gain from opportunities structured for their particular disabilities. Could I seriously suggest that you write your suggestion to Dave Walker (Hon. Sec.) and see if he cannot include the proposal in one of the Council agendas.
I can imagine that if I were to go blind, I would take great solace from the familiar feel of my cord and knots, which likewise, I enjoy tying from touch alone. However, I have a problem of understanding.
You and I both learned our knots in the first place via our sight. How do you teach someone how to knot without the medium of sight?
Derek
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Brilliant idea, Glenys
I'll see what I can do - I see no reason why we can't have a pdf all ready to print. I can scan a copy and send it to Mel for uploading onto the site.
We always have the handouts available at the craft shows we attend.
Lesley
WebAdmin
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Thank you, Lesley.
Ok then, Derek - in for a penny, in for a guinea ;D You probably wouldn't believe that I don't get much talk time at home :-X Then again, you might ;D
To teach the blind, when we learned with sight: I would suggest that like any teacher/pupil relationship, you should start with respect and confidence in the ability of the pupil to learn. Learning is not the same as achieving (I'm still elated about my mobile lanyard) but it will become achievement if sufficient patience is given. My husband has a spinal injury, and so I'm familiar with several disabled people, plus some people with mental health difficulties. And of course, I have children. They'll be instantly aware of any deficit in our faith in their ability, just through body language, and tone of voice. More than anything else, I think it would need the ability of the teacher to remember not to say 'no, the blue cord goes over the red cord' but to remember to stick to relative left and right, and even if necessary (and with prior discussion with the blind person, maybe) to reach out and guide their hands. I wouldn't hesitate to do so with a sighted person, but then they can see my hands moving towards theirs, and will not be startled to suddenly have someone 'interfere' with what they're doing. On the whole, I would think that just a set of cords secured at the top, laid out so they won't tangle immediately, perhaps with some weighting on the end for sennits, would be sufficient. However they're secured at the top, it has to be able to withstand some amount of pulling in order to give a good shape to the knot or sennit. Once the basic stand or base has been devised, it should be easily duplicatable so that the blind person could have one in their own home and continue at leisure. And idea for a shape has occurred to me, I'll draw it and post it in my photo album.
I'll write to Dave Walker about it once I'm sure no-one else has any suggestions to make to improve the idea. A thought occurs to me, however. You mention that you work in a sheltered workshop. I did once wonder about the viability of decorative knotting for therapy for people with mental health problems, but the unpredictability of what might happen outside the lesson put me off. This may be an unfair judgement on my part, but I would need to be very sure of the particular trends of thought that such a person has before I could teach them. Then again, I've just posted on a situation almost as unpredictable (Responsibility or Culpability). Do you have any experience of working with people with mental health problems?
I also take the liberty of including the following, which I saw in the newsletter of Joni Eareckson Tada's UK ministry for the disabled, Through The Roof. I try to remember it with my children, as well:
Beatitudes for the Friends of People with Disabilities
- Blessed are you who take the time to listen to difficult speech, for you help me to know that if I persevere I can be understood.
- Blessed are you who never bid me to 'hurry up' and take my tasks from me and do them for me, for I often need time rather than help.
- Blessed are you who stand beside me as I enter new and untried ventures, for my failures will be outweighed by the times I surprise myself and you.
- Blessed are you who asked for my help, for my greatest need is to be needed.
- Blessed are you who understand that it is difficult for me to put my thoughts into words.
- Blessed are you who, with a smile, encourage me to try once more.
- Blessed are you who never remind me that today I asked the same question twice.
- Blessed are you who respect me and love me as I am, just as I am, and not like you wish I were.
Regards
Glenys
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Afternoon All
Right, as per Glenys' suggestion, there is now a copy of the latest Guild flyer on the Guild website.
It's in two parts, front and back, and Mel has put them on the following pages:-
The Publications index page
The Downloads index page
The Diary page
The Stop Press Box on the Home page has also been amended to point to them.
The two parts of the flyer are in JPG format. We would recommend downloading both images files and then printing them using the graphics, or desktop publishing, software of your choice.
Lesley
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Hi Glenys,
They'll be instantly aware of any deficit in our faith in their ability
I have no deficit in faith in the abilities of the disabled - I have a deficit in faith in the abilities of the able bodied teachers, to think through the 'eyes' of the blind they are teaching.
The lovely group who work through the 'Aspires Sheltered Workshop' have a wide array of disabilities, and yes, there is an occasional exceedingly dark moment to contend with, but generally this group are inspirational to the able bodied who all too easily forget how lucky we are to have full use of all our faculties.
Good luck in your proposals to Dave, he is looking forward to reading the detail of how it might be achieved.
I will ask Jackie Murphey (who runs Aspires) if she has any contact with support organisations for the blind.
Derek
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As I have recently learnt of this guild , I am interested in the idea of becoming a member of it. I happened to come across the fact that there was such a thing as a guild of knot tyers in a book I was reading . I am very uncertain as to the benefit of the guild. What does the guild do? From my initial impression of the existence of such a guild, I presumed that it was ?possibly? a governing body that accounted for a knot registry and could determine whether new knots where actually new or previously existed, hence submission regarding a knot that I wanted Identified. I had visions that the guild is involved in expanding the knowledge of knot craft and may be involved in knot publications. Can you please clarify for me whether these are functions of the guild and also the range of functions that it does serve. As a suggestion to attract membership and raise the profile of the IGKT, the guild should advertise itself in all publications regarding knots. It should also approach relevant web sites and book publishers and ask that the International guild of knot tyers be included in their list of resources/publications so that people with an interest can be made aware of the IGKT.
Regards
Oscar
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Oh Oscar,
You voice the imaginings of so many who are drawn to the promising name -- "The International Guild of Knot Tyers"
The name, and to a degree the Guild aims, promises all the things you (and I and many others) thought that the Guild would encompass.
Sadly, the promise in the grandiose name is not delivered in reality (yet). You would be better served if you think of the Guild as a small club of decorative knot tyers with a smattering of practical and 'theoretical' tyers. The regular publication 'Knotting Matters' is well worth the annual membership fee, and if you join, then you will make one more who feels that the Guild should actively deliver the expectations its name conjours up.
If you join, then you can work towards achieving these goals, and I for one would certainly vote for a person with your vision and perception to take a seat on the Council.
Derek
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Derek,
Perhaps on the face of it my initial knowledge of what IGKT was incorrect and indeed from your comments, it appears that I am way off knowing what IGKT is.
I would like to think that the IGKT had a bit more weight as an authority or group with a comprehensive knowledge of knots in general. Is the IGKT affiliated with other groups , Is the group actively promoting itself? I have in my short discourse with my postings found the users to be very helpful, sympathetic and willing to research (in particular a knot I have posted for identification). I must admit i found your reply quite humourous. When are we going start a knitting group? I got this pearl over plain that i must show you! But seriously your comments come from experience and I aknowledge that from your writings the current situation may not be ideal and we need to work towards a common goal. Perhaps we need to discuss some acheivable aims and take it from there for a start.
Regards
Oscar
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Perhaps on the face of it my initial knowledge of what IGKT was incorrect and indeed from your comments,
it appears that I am way off knowing what IGKT is.
The IGKT was chartered upon the coincidence of many knot-interested correspondents
commenting upon (what I prefer to call...) "SmitHunter's Bend" making front page news
of the London Times (in the good ol' days pre-RupertMurdoch, alas now sucking up
another venerable paper of the Fourth Estate (WSJ). Such was the expressed interest
and enthusiasm for various aspects of knotting that Geoffrey Budworth & Des Pawson
thought to try for longevity of interest and founded the IGKT, convening a charter meeting
of over two dozen. So, the IGKT has this informal, grass-roots origin; it can be, within
reason, what it wants to be, dependent upon membership, effort, et cetera. Perhaps there
are some knot-worthy things it, itself, cannot do by reason of its legal status; but it might
play some role in moving others in whatever direction.
I would like to think that the IGKT had a bit more weight as an authority or group with a comprehensive knowledge of knots in general.
Is the IGKT affiliated with other groups?
Is the group actively promoting itself?
To my experience, learning about knotting has proven more challenging than I expected, with there
being less information concerning them to be reviewed/absorbed, and greater problems in making
headway. One the practical knotting side of things, I submit that the increased diversity of knottable
material increases the complexity of knots, and has yet to be generally well appreciated. (Even within
a relatively homogeneous medium of monofilament fishing lines w/rated strengths of "20#" (and also
some braided lines), the current/just-passed? (August, IIRC) issue of Sport Fishing carries (editer?)
Doug Olander's testing of MANY lines in 3 knots--Bimini Twist, Palomar, & an Albright-like bight hitch--,
and with surprising results: strengths ranging from about 45%(!) to 110%(!!), and this of the TESTED
strength, which he nicely compares with the vendor rated strength. And, yes, he acknowledges
the anomaly of apparent line strengthening of the >100% breaks and even did repeated testing,
because he couldn't believe them. Alas, I don't think he reveals his test configuration. --haven't but
scanned the article.
The point re the above test report is to show a marked difference between that apparent reality
and what one will likely read in most published works on fishing knots. There's SOMEthing to be
learned here (either re knots & materials, or test methods (and sometimes reporting))!
As for IGKT influence, there might be something that can be done vis-a-vis international standards (ISO,
e.g.) and knot nomenclature and definition (something akin to the registry mentioned), so that members
of various communities can give information less ambiguously/confusingly. In many of its application areas,
knotting seems to be treated without much weight or broad awareness or focus. The IGKT might help to
increase focus/awareness. (Hence my elsewhere urging for the PAB group to seek more to learn from
those fishermen w/whom they'll share the festival stage with than in simply presenting the decorative
works they are familiar with. The PAB newsletter has carried a few van de Griend articles about fishing
knots--i.p., one on "side knots"--; some further research of this knotting will help show similarities/differences
between regions, and varieties of knots & materials employed. (I've not encountered the Ossel hitch as a
side knot, e.g., but have the (reverse--in tying) Ground-line hitch, and an Overhand w/Half-hitches put on
*behind*. What is seen on the West Coast boats?)
--dl*
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