International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum

General => Knotting Concepts & Explorations => Topic started by: tuttle on November 25, 2012, 07:41:04 PM

Title: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: tuttle on November 25, 2012, 07:41:04 PM
Hi, I am new to this forum and found it by searching for 'new knots'

I am a tree surgeon, and have been experimenting with friction hitches for climbing.

The knot looks similar to 'gripping sailors hitch' i have searched over 30 friction hitches but cannot find this one.

Hope someone can shed some light on it.
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: tuttle on November 25, 2012, 07:41:50 PM
pictures
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: SS369 on November 25, 2012, 08:04:42 PM
Hi tuttle and welcome.

Your offering looks like either the Distal or the Michoac?n. Both used and regarded highly in the arborist community.

Here's a good link to check out.  http://www.treeservicesmagazine.com/article-6706.aspx (http://www.treeservicesmagazine.com/article-6706.aspx)

SS
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: tuttle on November 25, 2012, 08:17:10 PM
hi, its definatly not a distal and looks similar to the michoacan, but the exits are different.

thanks for the link. :)
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: tuttle on November 25, 2012, 08:40:54 PM
just double checked the michoacon, mines different and sits sweeter.
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: SS369 on November 25, 2012, 11:47:56 PM
I'm interested, so could you offer some more or better picture(s). I would like to see completely around the hitch. I have to assume that this is part of a closed system?
Also please explain what "sits sweeter" means.
TIA

SS
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: X1 on November 26, 2012, 12:15:53 AM
   I have a very limited knowledge, if any, on climbing hitches, and no climbing experience whatsoever !
   However, this hitch looks nice to my naive eyes...I would prefer it with one more round turn at the upper part ( 4, in total ). Have you tried it with 4 wraps ? 
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: tuttle on November 26, 2012, 08:58:47 AM
3 wraps are perfect for ascension, 4 are to many - but that may depend on user.
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: X1 on November 26, 2012, 12:26:48 PM
   I have thought of the forth wrap, because I am interested in friction hitches tied around main lines of the same rope diameter. If the material is a little stiff, a fourth wrap forces the nipping tube to close around the tensioned main line and constrict it tighter, I think. Could you, please, try it around a rope of the same rope diameter, with three and four wraps, and with a softer and a stiffer material, and tell us your results ?
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: tuttle on November 26, 2012, 07:22:36 PM
well, i think if its tied on the same diameter it would be too bulky, the ropes in the pictures are 8mm and 13mm, that is the standard for tree work.

i don't think it would offer much friction either.
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: X1 on November 26, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
if its tied on the same diameter it would be too bulky

  I do not know what "bulk" has to do with tree climbing, but, for a general use friction hitch, it is not such a big deal.

I don't think it would offer much [more] friction either.

   Is nt it 4 always better than 3, as 6 are better than 4 ? (I am referring to 6 and 4 wraps Prussik, as reported at :
http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/63244.htm
Title: Re: Is this a new friction hitch?
Post by: Dan_Lehman on November 27, 2012, 12:54:18 AM
just double checked the michoacon, mine's different and sits sweeter.

I haven't encountered the exact formation that you present,
but in some sense it IS the michoacon slightly altered on the
finishing tuck --on opposite side of the object rope.
But, then, the m. is intended to be loaded on both ends,
not one, like the Prohgrip (aka "Blake's hitch"); this is quite
a difference.

What you present is thus more like the Prohgrip (Blake's) but with
the tail reaching back and then tucking the opposite way
through (just) a single turn of the near-loaded helix (whereas
Prohgrip tucks up through two turns, in the standard
form of the hitch.  So --though I'm yet to play with the hitch--,
I would expect your hitch to be well gripping on same-diameter
lines, which is a strong point of the Prohgrip (and a common
arborist circumstance, one of two forms of climbing).

Heinz Prohaska --the earlier discoverer of "Blake's hitch", hence my
invention of that name...-- points out that the number of coils
of the knot and extent of tucking the tail can be adapted
to conditions : more tucking for stiff ropes, more untucked-under
coils for slippery but flexible ropes.  And, YMMV per person who
will be loading the knot.


Tuttle, thanks for sharing your invention and experience!
Cheers,
--dl*
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