International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum
General => Chit Chat => Topic started by: Tom on May 30, 2007, 07:11:11 PM
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Hello Knot Folk,
I'm new here so please forgive any breach of etiquette. I think I have discovered a new bend, but don't know how to check. It is very simple to tie, so I imagine others have tied it before, but it would be very exciting for me if not. I cannot find it in the marvellous Ashley Book of Knots (but that is a very big book to hunt through), nor in any other knotty books that I can find. It does not slip or jam, and is easy to untie - decorative but rather bulky. Here's a picture: the pink rope has the single version, the purple rope has the same bend doubled.
Come on folk - burst my bubble!
Tom x
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Hello Knot Folk,
I'm new here so please forgive any breach of etiquette. I think I have discovered a new bend, but don't know how to check. It is very simple to tie, so I imagine others have tied it before, but it would be very exciting for me if not. I cannot find it in the marvellous Ashley Book of Knots (but that is a very big book to hunt through), nor in any other knotty books that I can find. It does not slip or jam, and is easy to untie - decorative but rather bulky. Here's a picture: the pink rope has the single version, the purple rope has the same bend doubled.
Come on folk - burst my bubble!
Tom x
While an image of the finished product is nice, can you show a picture or a diagram showing how the knot is tied? Thanks.
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Sorry Tom,
I cannot tell from the picture how the cord flows through the knot. Could you open the knot up a bit and photograph it again.
Also, you say it is very easy to tie. The finished knot does not show how you made it, so some description perhaps with pictures of the stages would be very helpful.
FInally, how did you come across it??
Derek
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Thanks Roo, and Thanks Derek! I've tried to make a diagram, but it came out hopeless (is there special knot drawing software that would make that easier?). Here is a pic showing the stages. Two loops, with opposing coils, and the working ends side by side - then pass the working ends over the opposite loop, and back through. Pull on the ends to tighten. I made it by mistake when trying to remember Hunter's Bend, but frankly it seems a better knot. It doesn't jam or shake free, and many loops can be added for decorative effect. Easy to untie, too, even after as much strain as I can muster. Do let me know what you think...
Tom x
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I think I have discovered a new bend, but don't know how to check. It is very simple to tie, so I imagine others have tied it before, but it would be very exciting for me if not. ...
Come on folk - burst my bubble!
An other has. Poof! Does your bubble burst that easily?
Should it matter so much whether another has similarly configured cordage?
Just over a quarter century ago (1981-09-03), I illustrated the "double" version you show.
I might not have made the single version, as I was looking to form and hold a bit of
extended gradual curvature in the SPart upon entering the knot--and this requires
some distance/material.
It looks close to the reverse of one of the Symmetric Bends presented by
Roger Miles in his so-named book (he gives 60 such mostly unpresented knots).
Re-visiting this structure, I'm led to try a different sort of doubling--to wit:
upon tucking the end through the first loop, take it around and back through
again, before finishing with the tuck out through the other SPart's loop.
This I think gives some better padding to the SParts at entry as they
are bent around two parts of rope.
You can be happy to have discovered this, irrespective of others' ventures. ;)
Thanks,
--dl*
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Pop! I had imagined glories akin to those of Dr. Hunter, and to be hoist shoulder-high by the Guild! I am crestfallen. Thank you for your very informative reply, Dan, and I'll try the variation you suggest. I shall consider the single version to be 'Tom's Bend' and tie as many things with it as I can, even if noone else adopts it, or considers it original. I'll continue tugging at my rope by the fireside in the hope that tangles of interest will appear, and let you know if they do.
Thank you all,
Tom x
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Hi Tom,
Thanks for bringing us Tom's Knot. You have a delightful turn of phrase and I hope that while you sit by the fireside tugging your tackle or tightening your timber hitch, that you will think to drop in here with a comment or a new 'foundling' from time to time.
Have you 'played' with this knot yet to see how it reconfigures and if any of those configurations confer advantage or danger?
Although it is fairly easy to tie, have you worked out any rapid (wrap - twist - tug) ways to tie it yet?
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Pop! I had imagined glories akin to those of Dr. Hunter, and to be hoist shoulder-high by the Guild!
Well, you have that, somewhat: my discovery of SmitHunter's bend came in '73,
and seeing that on the cover of The Morrow Guide to Knots led me to
the Times, Budworth, & the Guild! But Edward preceded me in finding this, yet
Phil Smith published it even earlier. Not so much hoisting on shoulders,
or the successive standing upon shoulders to ... , but ending up merely
shoulder-to-shoulder for want of information!
--dl*
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Hello all,
I'm a friend of Tom's. He's unfortunately resting up at King's Hospital after an unfortunate incident on his motorbike/with a car. Thankfully he'll eventually be fine but he's got a rather large hole and not many attached bones in his left leg. His knots however are holding up all manner of items at the hospital to compensate for the lack of NHS equipment - his drip hangs by a knot from his television monitor, he's been lassooing his foot to exercise it backwards and forwards! He's been lending string to the nurses. He's secured himself an end bed with a window and seems quite settled - current thoughts are he'll be there for about six weeks. In the meantime, Tom asked me to send his best and ask Dan, which of the bends/knots in Symmetric Bends did you think his may be the reverse of? We're trying to keep him busy!
Thanks for your help.
Emma
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Hello all,
I'm a friend of Tom's. He's unfortunately resting up at King's Hospital after an unfortunate incident on his motorbike/with a car.
... In the meantime, Tom asked me to send his best and ask Dan, which of the bends/knots in Symmetric Bends did you think
his may be the reverse of? We're trying to keep him busy!
Dear Emma, I'm sure I give the IGKT's sentiment in wishing Tom well & the best!
(I hesitate now on "quick" recovery, since it seems Tom is using his current limitations
for indulging what Ashley imaginatively called "an adventure in unlimited space"
--but still we have good wishes, whichever way things go. :) )
Reviewing Miles's book now, I see that it is his Symmetric bend A15, Sleeping Beauty,
that is the reverse of Tom's, with also the swapped position (laterally) of the ends--a detail.
B11 is a similar knot, but which is the reverse of an improved SmitHunter's bend (which
Harry Asher first presented but dismissed as "unimportant", not realizing its superiority).
It's surprising that Roger didn't consider the reverse, as he chides Harry for similar lack
of consideration re B11. (But, my goodness, if one goes to full consideration of knots,
tempus fugit!)
Cheers,
--dl*
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Many thanks Dan for such a speedy response. Tom has now ascertained that the knot you referred to is not his Knot so he's very delighted. We're heading to visit him this afternoon and he's avidly "splicing" we hear. His recovery has speeded up with many an operation and some skingrafting (apparently knots wouldn't suffice) and we're hoping he will be out and back on the forum within a couple of weeks. He's now in a wheelchair which is a great improvement on being stuck in bed.
Thanks again for answering question so fast. It was a great boost to Tom. Emma.
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His recovery has speeded up with many an operation and some skingrafting (apparently knots wouldn't suffice)
and we're hoping he will be out and back on the forum within a couple of weeks.
He's now in a wheelchair which is a great improvement on being stuck in bed.
Thanks again for answering question so fast. It was a great boost to Tom. Emma.
"a couple of WEEKS" !! Oh, dear! That is a longer stay in hospital care than
I'd thought. Perhaps the IGKTers here can be of further morale-boosting &
time-filling help: if we have a mailing address (hardmail, i.e.), we might send
along wishes AND some knotty material for Tom's, er, therapeutic benefit.
--such as a copy of some of Roger Miles's knots, and others.
:)
(If you prefer, versus public posting, you could PM info to me and to others
who PM you requesting it. --though I don't think SPAM will follow such an address.)
*kN*
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Many thanks Dan for such a speedy response. ... We're heading to visit him this afternoon
and he's avidly "splicing" we hear. ... He's now in a wheelchair which is a great improvement
on being stuck in bed.
Emma, maybe Tom can gain some understanding of the knotting that the surgeons
& other staff do in the hospital? I know that they have various types of suture
materials--pretty fiddling fine stuff--, but also some cotton tape such as might
be tied to an endotracheal (I think that's the term) tube and around a patient's
head.
Check you PMail here for offers of knot-gifts for Tom, to keep him delighted.
--dl*
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Dear sweet Guildmembers! What kind words you send! Sorry to say, though, I have only just received them - Excellent Emma nipped off to the States shortly after her last post so I never did hear of the thoughtful offers of knot-based therapies. Her estimate of two-weeks further tarry in the hospital was, unfortunately, not in accord with the surgeon's wishes and I am only just out - with the most extraordinary contraption attached to my mangled leg, and a bumper pot of morphine. I still can't go home because I live at the top of four flights of stairs. Taken in by my generous papa, I am allowed to recline (at an alarming rake) in his sitting room. In hospital, they kindly fitted me with wheels, but not grapples, so I am usually confined downstairs - this rare trip up to the computer is thanks to a team of navvies.
Knotwise, Emma's assessment is fair: ropery of all sorts turned out to be useful on the ward, particularly given the shortage of dripstands (I had, at one point six tubes running in, and the entire ward had only four stands!). Bowlines and Highwayman's hitches for toe loops (exciting the ex-Marine physio!), Midshipman's hitches (aka Tautline hitches, unless I miss my guess) were handy throughout, and I whisked up a handsome Square Chain Sennit handle with which to winch my mostly-meccano limb at swabbing time. Tom's Bend even found a use in curtain repair! (oh, and surgeons really do use surgeons' bends - one can see a nice example if one x-rays my knee)
Look, knotters, I don't want to sound grabby, but I would be SO happy to receive any of the voiced knotty treats here in my recuperative den - it'll be long after Christmas before I can reach my library, let alone a chandlery! Despite the morphine, I still crave advancement in my tying skills - but I have no idea what PMail (PM?) is. I gather it is some sort of privacy mechanism, and it does seem a little foolish to put my poor father's address up for all to see, but if any of these kind knotty offers still stand, could someone explain how I go about PMing?
I already feel so snug in this nexus of nexuses - how glad I am to have found the Guild!
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Tom, you say " I have no idea what PMail (PM?) is":
it is "private message" of "... mail" and comes on many forums, such as this.
When you log in to the Forum, you should see your username listed in the
upper left of the window with "you have NN messages, MM are new", and
if you click on "messages" you will be delivered to your PM window, et cetera.
--dl*
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Sorry to hear about your accident Tom. I wish you a speedy recovery.
Turks Head 54
Try going to this website
http://www.geocities.com/testube44/TheKnotTyerofBannerCreek.html?1191695133031
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Dan, you are my most revered knot deity! And may I thank you personally for your personal messages of goodwill (even if one of them encouraged my staying longer in hospital - two months was plenty, thanks, even with a length of cord at hand!). It really did buoy my spirits to have a Known Name of the Knot Pantheon stoop to offer succour while the doctors prodded me to a very low ebb. Thank you.
Yesterday I was hoping to add the offer of a glimpse of my leg apparatus to the Guild, but I pressed the tab key (I think) and it whisked my missive away too soon (will that always happen? This is the first time I have ever been to a chatroom!). I'll not post it unless requested because it might be upsetting to the squeemish, but if anyone would like a look at a rather elaborate Taylor Spatial Frame in action, I would be happy to provide a pic. It derives from flight simulator technology, I'm told, and - in a knotting context - has replaced some of the old ropes, weights, winches and tackle of a traction frame, as well as supporting the legbones like a plastercast, though the bones can still be manipulated within by means of the calibrated struts.
I'll try this PM thing now...
Cheers all!
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yech.
Those pictures of your wound sound
nasty. I split my head open a little
while ago and got 11 stiches. The stiches are
all out and i have a scar.
TH54
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Ow. I hope nothing fell out before they got the stiches in. Is the Banner Creek site your own? A fine wee thing if so. You illustrate a very different 'Midshipman's hitch' in the sea scout manual from the one I mentioned - more like a sheet bend but tied to a hook. Mine is a slide-and-lock affair, and ever so useful (can't be sure, and have no books here to check, but I think I'm using Geoffrrey Budworth's nomenclature). Thanks to you (and, again, to all in this strange ethereal knot world) for you kind good wishes at what has been, quite frankly, a horrible time.
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That seamanship manual I did not make. Yes that is my
webpage.
th54
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I will be adding more to my webpage when I get the time.
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Go for it, TH!
And to you all: I still can't get this PMail thing to work - this clever machine tells me that I am not allowed to send messages. Is that to do with Guild subscription, perhaps? I have sent it off - honest! - but we have been mired in a postal strike. And how would I know the addresses of those with whom I wanted to exchange PM? (This probably isn't the place for tech questions of this nature - please tell me 'where to go' if I am annoying you!). Now let's see if I can put one of these jolly faces on... 8) There we go.
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You can only send messages after you have made a certain number of posts in this forum.
You can find an explanation here, contact Mel or Lesley with questions about it:
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=687.0
Willeke
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Hi all,
I think I managed to send a PM to Dan/knudenoggin/+1other - with Tom's snailmail address last week. Let me know if no-one's got anything from me. TH 54 I saw your website and looked up the Matthew Walker knot as I have a friend by the same name. Apparently it is the only knot named after a person - is that true (if we don't include Tom's Knot)?
Thanks to all, Emma
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Hi Tom
Take a look at this webpage I think you will enjoy it.
TH54
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Sorry i forgot the webpage.
http://www.geocities.com/testube44/TheKnotTyerofBannerCreek.html?1191695133031
then click on photos.
TH54
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I hate to burst your bubble again Tom... Looking through The Ashley Book of Knots the other day, I stumbled upon the knot you described earlier listed in ABOK as #1063. Ashley did not give it a name. Although I think the way you showed how to tie it is much easier to remember.
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Good eye, Znex!! :)
Yes, that knot, loaded on ends in opposition to each other, with the eye cut,
is it. (Like finding Shakehands in a not-quite-exact loopknot.)
--dl*
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Kick a lad when he's down, why don't you! You could at least pretend that it is my own until I am better! Do I see a glimmer of hope in the qualifications - 'loaded on ends in opposition to each other, with the eye cut'? If not, I am never going to be able to live down the shame, crawling round (literally) to confess that Tomknot is not Tom's knot. Might we consider it a variation on a theme? Please! I regret to say that I can't get at my ABOK (salty with sea spray, and pickled in pipe smoke - just the way I bought it!) - it will be a long time before I can climb the stairs to my own front door - can anyone send me a picture (if it's not too much trouble), so I can see how bad the damage is?
x
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Do I see a glimmer of hope in the qualifications - 'loaded on ends in opposition to each other, with the eye cut'?
Oh, yes, to be sure. Indeed, as one ponders the depths of "What is a knot?!",
one might discern distinctions of even finer difference! (E.g., Ashley certainly shows
a Crossing knot; but he hardly presents that structure as useful in belaying climbers
as a, quite dynamic, load limiter! He et al. also present the Groundline H., but hardly
as tied essentially in reverse as a (what I introduce as a sub-class) seizing hitch
--though one can sort of find it (MIS-drawn, alas) under that very name in ABOK.)
Although that "kick a man ..." could be taken as amical motivation to keep looking
into the knot universe for more ... .
it will be a long time before I can climb the stairs to my own front door - can anyone send me a picture
(if it's not too much trouble), so I can see how bad the damage is?
x
!? Is there nOne available to do fetching service of such things for you?
What of snailmail? Those who might care to send along, um, recuperation therapeutic knotty items
to you can put things into an envelope, appropriately addressed? (I do have your address via
KnotTom; and, btw, your PMing should be okay now.)
:)
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Kick a lad when he's down, why don't you! You could at least pretend that it is my own until I am better! Do I see a glimmer of hope in the qualifications - 'loaded on ends in opposition to each other, with the eye cut'? If not, I am never going to be able to live down the shame, crawling round (literally) to confess that Tomknot is not Tom's knot. Might we consider it a variation on a theme? Please! I regret to say that I can't get at my ABOK (salty with sea spray, and pickled in pipe smoke - just the way I bought it!) - it will be a long time before I can climb the stairs to my own front door - can anyone send me a picture (if it's not too much trouble), so I can see how bad the damage is?
x
Extracted from Ashley Book of Knots p192
(http://knotbox1.pbwiki.com/f/ABOK%20p192.jpg)
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Ach! Pressed the wrong button again (I have to twist to get anywhere near the keyboard!). What I was trying to say was: Fellows! How honoured I feel to have been elevated to 'Trusted New Poster' from the rather galling 'Newbie'. I'ld be delighted to receive any snailmail that any of you thought appropriate (or therapeutic) - but, as I say, the Lady may be able to bring me a few titbits (US: tidbits - why?) before too long, so while I am no longer desperate, I remain intrigued as to what you all might send to an ailing knotsman. So I shall throw caution to the wind and upload my Recuperation address (because I still don't seem to have the measure of PM) 1 Turner Drive London NW11 6TX, and you can make up any name you like - will that foil the spammers?
x
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It seems that what I had written before that got lost, so please insert the following before 'Ach!':
Thank you, Derek, for the picture - my heart is glad! It seems to me that though the crux configuration is the same we are looking definitely at two knots here - Ashley's loop and Tom's Bend? The necessity of cutting and placement on the bight make them as different as the bowline and the sheet bend (two of your Surrey Six, I think, so they must be distinct in the eyes of the Guild, despite identical configuration).
And thank you Dan, as ever, for your sympathetic precision ('nice' is what Shakespeare would have called it, but the word has veered away in meaning). I am going to need a bit of help getting back onto your shoulders. My dear Lady hopes to get to the flat later in the week but ABOK is too hefty a tome for such a slender one as she to lug across town, and she is, for some reason, unwilling to get on the bike (ever again).
And thank you Znex for your attention - this glorious Guild really does seem to care!
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Tom,
I don't know what medication you are on, but it seems to be pretty good stuff. Care to pass on the secret? I'm sure we could all do with some. ;D
Derek
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My recipe is a tasty brew of morphine sulphate, gabapentin, paracetemol (which, apparently, acts as a catalyst), and as a nod to the New Age, glucosamine and vitamin E. I am also to rub my foot (or, rather, to get Nursey to rub my foot since I can't get there!) with capsaicin - the active ingredient in chilli peppers, and very much where-it's-at in analgesics these days. It has stained the poor limb a handsome honey gold, which puts its pasty companion to shame. The whole lot has to be doused in blue disinfectant to keep clean the dozen skewers on which hang my bones, and I also bombard the shattered areas with ultrasound to egg them on to regrowth - this comes in a plastic box. (Noone has yet taken me up on the offer of photos!)
All the above are readily available from your local pharmacist, but you may have to take a mask and shotgun if you don't have a prescription.
Happy hunting!
x
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Hmm,
I had forgotten about the shattered limb bit -- methinks perhaps I will just stick to tea, coffee, beer and 18g of ascorbic acid a day to keep my spirits up.
Still, I suppose knotting as a hobby is conducive to the enforced immobility, but I certainly do not envy you.
I hope your progress is rapid - keep up with the ultrasound and any other mischief that gets your heart pumping.
Derek
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All Right lets see some pictures I'll probably regret this though.
TH54
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I may have done this three times - bear with me or blame the morphine - but what I was trying to say was:
'Well, I just tried, and was told by the machine that my avatar was not writable - if the picture ever materialises (or should that be dematerialises in this ethereal context, avatars notwithstanding?) it has, at least, some cord on show to keep this thread vaguely knot-related...'
and then attach a picture. Let's see what happens this time...
Oh, and TH! How exciting to see my knot on your site!
Hmmm this really doesn't seem to be working for me - I can't upload the picture even though it is tiny. Any suggestions? I'll try without the pic...
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one more go...
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Well, Mel seems to have fixed the image posting problem, and well done for getting your first image up on the forum.
Just one criticism - that image really needed a Public Health warning before viewing - I nearly lost my Wheatybangs over the keyboard.
Jeez, how much longer will you be in that condition? I thought that bones mended in a matter of a few weeks, so what have you got inside there? Bonemeal??
Keep your resolve strong and your mind active and keep chasing the nurses (don't worry, you won't catch them unless they want you to!!). Another interesting pastime I found was Consultant baiting. Ask to use the hospital library to read up on your condition and watch the apoplexy when they think you are questioning their expertise - it's fun, but they will get their own back eventually so take that one easy.
Are you allowed to walk yet? Never being in bed when they want to prod you and talk about you is another wonderful way of brightening the day on the pretext of 'exercising hard to get better soon'.
Remember, if your spirits are high your body will follow, so work on maintaining a happy and positive attitude and while you are stuck with the scaffold - have fun.
Derek
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Funnily enough, I have been enjoying all of those suggested delights today: I was wheeled out as a model (to be pronounced 'muddoo', I believe, if I want to make a career of it) at a day-long Taylor Spatial Frame seminar, where the gathered professionals wanted to see one in the flesh before being let lose on plastic shinbones with amazing canulated drills. I had a go at building one myself, and it was great fun until I began to imagine how the same foot-long steel pins had been driven through my own non-plastic example. The reps from the manufacturer gave me one of the titanium rings to take home (which I am very pleased with!) for publicising their wares with such apparent glee - my contraption is the most elaborate even they have seen, which makes me feel super special.
In answer to your technical questions, it is indeed mostly bonemeal within (the consultant described her original findings under my kneecap as beeing 'like a crumbled digestive biscuit'), and get to keep the metalwork for a year for now, with the possibility of further bone-graft ops after that! Ho hum. Keeping spirits high not too much of a problem, though, with a piece of string in my hand, and a jolly forum on my screen!
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Ouch! :'( I hope I don't wind up like that!
Get well very soon. ;D
TH54
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You're in the scafolding for a YEAR :o!!!???!!
Sheesh. I'd go insane!!
TH54
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Have done
:P
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Insane is OK.
Just remember to take the constrictor off before the 'bits' go blue.