Author Topic: Advice for a newbie  (Read 4995 times)

willy

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Advice for a newbie
« on: January 09, 2009, 08:56:30 AM »
Awesome.  The internet is amazing.  Always there is a definitive site for any particular topic and this is the one for knots.

I am a newbie and a casual student of knots.  I don't have hobbies or work that requires me to tie, so I don't put the knots I know to practical use that often.  Certainly there is a knot for every purpose which brings me to my question.

I want to tie a knot at the end of a strap.  What I am working with is a automotive tow strap.  It is about 2 inches across, made of woven .... poly ?  Originally it had a metal hook on the end - the strap fed through the circular attachment point of the hook and stitched back, flat on itself.  The strap didn't become un-stitched but broke just behind the stitching.  I don't know of anyone that has a sewing machine that could re-stitch the strap, so I would like to tie the hook back onto the strap.

I realize that from a safe use aspect I should throw the strap away and buy a new one.  The strap was rated for towing an automobile - I guessing a 5,000 lbs rating.  I would not be using it for automobiles but I think it could be used for light duty work.  Say pulling a snowmobile or ATV.

I have tied straps together before using a simple overhand knot on both ends.  One strap receives an OH knot and the other end ( second knot ) traces the path of the knot by coming in from the free end.  It is a permanent knot and cannot be untied but it is quite workable.

My thinking is to use that knot to attach the hook.  I am wondering from which direction I should bring the free end into the knot.  I have taken three pictures to illustrate what I mean.  The strap in the pictures is not the tow strap.  It is a rubber strapping about 1/2 inch wide and a small keyring to simulate the hook.

The first picture just shows the knot in its correct usage to join a strap together.



The second is one way of tying the hook in.  The strap gets an OH knot, the free end is fed through hook and then the free end comes back along the loaded line of the strap.  Another way to describe it is that the strap is fed through the hook and doubled back on itself and an OH knot is tied in the doubled strap.



The third picture is an alternative that may be either stronger or weaker than the knot in picture # 2. It's simply the same two knots but with the free end fed through in parallel but starting from the standing end of the strap.



Pardon my misuse of terminology.  I'm not sure I am using free / standing end for the correct parts of the strap.  As far as I know the joining of two ropes / straps would correctly be called a bend.  The abomination that I am proposing could perhaps be fairly called a tangle.  Of course, if it works, it could be called a useful tangle.

Thanks for your input.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 09:03:48 AM by willy »

Sweeney

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 11:15:51 AM »
Willy

The first of your photos is a Water Knot widely used for joining tape (eg in climbing). If subjected to several hard pulls esp if jerked as in towing check it regularly for slippage. For a permanent loop I would use the figure 8 (similar to your 2nd photo but with another turn of the loop before tucking. To attach to a hook (which presumably has some sort of closed ring on it) you will need to rethread the Figure 8 in a similar way to the Water knot. There are dozens of Internet sites which will show you how to tie the Figure 8 loop - one is below.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexclimbing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Barry

roo

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 05:41:05 PM »
.  I don't know of anyone that has a sewing machine that could re-stitch the strap, so I would like to tie the hook back onto the strap.

One of the nice things about flat webbing is that is easy to sew.  You might open the phone book and look for a place that does alterations.  They could likely fill your strap with hundreds of zig-zag-shaped stitches of heavy nylon thread before you could ask, "How much?". 



You could do the same yourself with needle and thread while watching TV some evening.

Just be sure to label your tow strap with a reduced load rating, if not for others, for yourself when you forget what happened to the strap years later.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 10:33:49 PM by roo »
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PatDucey

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2009, 09:02:15 PM »
I have one of those same tow straps, and I needed to repair one end also.  I sewed it using a sail needle and some waxed synthetic thread.  This is heavy duty thread, strong enough that I can't break in my hands.  I had to use a palm thimble to force the needle through the fabric on the webbing.  I also cut clean and melted the end of the tow strap to prevent unraveling.

This is one of those occasions where I used the saying "If you can't tie knots, tie lots".  I stiched it in the same pattern as the manufactured end, and then stiched it again.  I haven't had a problem with it, but I'm probably not using it anywhere near design loads.

Pat

willy

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2009, 10:59:49 PM »
Thanks for the help.  I am going to try that figure 8 knot just for practice along with the added turn to the knot in picture # 2.  Thanks for the direction, Barry.

The sewing option was always the one I would like to pursue.  It will make the cleanest finished product.  I do have a regular sewing machine and claim some small proficiency with it.  I don't think it is heavy duty enough to handle the fabric nor does it fit a good enough / big enough needle to handle the thread required.  I doubt there is a machine in town that is much more capable.  There is a tailor and a drapery shop in town but the upholsterer closed up 5 years back.

Hand sewing I could do.  I am assuming a sail needle is a largish curved needle.  I do have one of those.  I had, however, never heard of a palm thimble, but I can rig up something to work.  I'll do some looking for the thread.  Thank you all for the responses and information.

As they say: " When you reach the end of your rope - Tie a knot and hold on "

roo

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 12:26:57 AM »
I don't think it is heavy duty enough to handle the fabric nor does it fit a good enough / big enough needle to handle the thread required. 

Try a few different sized needles on it.  You need not use a harpoon.   ;D  If you want to use slightly thinner nylon thread with more stitches, I'm sure that'd be fine. 

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willy

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 07:07:19 AM »
Mmmmm ... mokay.  What's the worst that could happen.  I don't want to mess up the sewing machine.  I have the waste patch that broke off and I could try that as a single thickness.  I do have a range of needles for the machine.  Easier than hand stitching and if it works a far stronger stitching.

What the heck - the lord hates a coward.

Willeke

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 05:44:10 PM »
If you are going to use your machine, start by using it as a hand powered machine, turning the wheel on the side with your hand.
I have done a lot of heavy duty work on a normal machine that way.
Use the thickest needle you have for your machine, most likely called Jeans needle if it comes with a name.

That way you can not burn out the motor of your sewing machine.
Set it to zig zag, and allow the needle to work its own way down, (do not pull on the strap at all while stitching.)
If and when the hand stitching goes easily you can start trying the motor, but do little bits at a time and let the motor rest at the end of a stretch.

If the machine is owned by your spouce, do not do this unless you have permission, as it can kill many sewing machines.

Willeke
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 05:41:13 PM by Willeke »
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willy

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Re: Advice for a newbie
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2009, 01:17:23 AM »
The deed is done.  Used the machine, nylon upholsterer's thread and my heaviest needle ( no name on the needle, but it was painted green - a secret code I think ).

I worked quite well.  A good tip on starting out by turning it by hand - thanks Willeke.  The thickness of the doubled strap wasn't an issue and I used a straight stitch as the zigzag stitch was prone to piling up.

I purchased the machine for my spouse's use but she never caught on to it, got comfortable with it, failed to get frustrated by it.  I do the machine stitching 'round here.  'Tis a wise and experienced person that can give the spouse / permission advice.

Thanks to all for the advice on the knots and stitching.

 

anything