The Ashley Book of Knots INDEX Project, 2008 - IT issues

[Sweeney]

I use a list of chapters to keep track of who is doing what (this list also shows the starting and ending knot number of each chapter) - this should be easy to incorporate into the greater scheme of things when we build the database so that you could for example list all knots in a chapter - though many will be duplicated across more than one chapter. Perhaps more important is once we have index ABOK we can move on to add the knots not there and modern usage (I strongly support Geoff Budworth's view expressed in the latest KM - ABOK is frozen in time, knotting needs to move on).

Barry

[TheTreeSpyder]

i agree; but still too think we should sift finer at the same time, as to not lose lessons of the past.

[Thonord]

Bumping this up again. cuz I'm a newbie here.
What happened. Why the hibernation?
Is there anything a newbie, with time to spare can do?

[deke]

yes I was intrigued by the idea of abok being electronically available.. at least the names and numbers and perhaps a comment section to refer to (via this site) when being referred by someone commenting eg abok 1010 w/o having to riffle through the actual book... (although i enjoy that as well)

[Sweeney]

This project has been moribund since March this year simply because volunteers have not been forthcoming. I was taken seriously ill in early May and now as Hon. Secretary I have little time to devote to the project though I still have the files etc.  In short the idea was to use Excel to record a list of all knots in Ashley but identifying duplicates as far as possible and recognising that we would make a number of mistakes which would need correction. The only exclusion was for knotted article designs which are built from other knots not least because they cannot easily be named and identified. Although I cannot do the idata input I will continue to act as ringmaster for those who wish to do some work - I allocate a chapter in Ashley and send a blank spreadsheet to the volunteer and when complete I check it (only a cursory check to make sure that the principles have been followed) and then add that data to the master. Once the Excel list is complete we can move on to checking editing etc before publishing the list using a database (Excel was only ever intended as a data capture tool as it is in common use).

I will need a few days to refresh my failing memory and dust off the files but if there are volunteers out there please let me know (secretary@igkt.net) and I'll get in touch with you personally.  Incidentally I haven't put the blank spreadsheet on the web so that I can keep track of who is doing what and avoid duplication.

One last thing although Excel 2007 is the software of choice I have in the past taken data in Excel 2003 and MS Works and could use a Word table or even a simple csv file created in Windows Notepad so don't be put off by the need to have Excel.

Barry

[Wed]

I understand that this specific project is confined to ABOK. But I would like to voice a humble opinion.

Even though the great book is the most comprehensive work to date, why stop there? How about a database in which all the knots of ABOK is presented, and then as many knots that are not? In such a database, additional information could be added, as names in other languages, suitability in various materials and so forth.

To be honest, the book is lacking in post Ashley materials. And actually, some knots have been discovered/invented since. Who knows, maybe another one will se the light of day.

Regarding databases, excel and volunteers, Wiki springs to mind. As a package, The fileformat involved would be at the backend (no need to muck about with proprietary fileformats), and volunteers can do a little bit of work whenever suitable. Most importantly, no one person need, or should, pull all the weight. That is harmful to the project when he gets tired or fall off the web so to speak.

Through a web interface no one need to be excluded who would want to give a hand. To me it would be valuable to be able to make searches on materials used, conditions for use, name (in various languages), ABOK number, tied in bight or at end. Well the list could be made long. But I believe a wiki could fit the bill.

To make the information even more accessible to people outside the knotting community, the knots could be presented at the already established Wikipedia and then do the indexing there as well ... Some knots are already up.

Best regards!
Wed

[Sweeney]

This project started by looking at Ashley but with the intention of moving on once that was complete and checked. A project like this needs someone to hold the reins and ensure that we are all working to the same brief (I have neither the time nor the inclination to "do all the work") - if not then we will get nowhere. There has to be a logical sequence and although the approach I advocate may be idiosyncratic and not to everyone's taste without some organisation the project will be chaotic. The file format is important only to the extent that everybody captures the same raw data using the same analysis - once all the data is available electronically the analysis, search options etc can be set to suit almost anything but the main grind is accurate data capture. Excel is used because it requires no programming expertise and is widely available.  It is by no means the only software that can be used to capture the data.  Ashley is organised into chapters and when someone volunteers I allocate a chapter to them to complete in their own time - this avoids duplication. So far though I have allocated several chapters and nothing has been done by the people who volunteered so this work is still available. I don't see that a Wiki page would offer any advantages until perhaps the data needs to be examined when we can use our own website anyway.

Barry

[Sweeney]

We move into the 21st century at last! With assistance from Andy Spencer we have a database for data capture on this website. However I am awaiting a reply from Faber & Faber (the UK publishers) about copyright so the database cannot (easily) be found without the URL. I do not want this published but anyone who wishes to help with this data collection should drop me an email or personal message please and I'll send you a link. If this ends up being published by default then I'm afraid that we will have to put password control in place until we are clear that we are not infringing copyright.

The grouping of knots in the drop down menus was mine - please stick with it for now and let's try and get a substantial amount of data input, then we can look at the finer points about editing, presentation etc.

Barry
Hon. Sec.

[Frayed Knot Arts]

Anthing further as to copyright info?

[KnotMe]

here's a thought.  how about google docs?  you can selectively enable people for sharing.  requiring people to have google accounts should be no more onerous than requiring them to have access to particular editions of excel.  if you want to switch, you can always save it out as comma delimited for transfer.  then the work will always be in the cloud for all participants to see.

[Sweeney]

I wrote to the publishers some time ago but as they do say it will take at least 4 months to respond to an email I am not holding my breath.  The Council use Google docs for sharing information but it seems to be clumsy for collaboration rather than just sharing. I am happy to pass the link to the area of our website on the same basis that I would have to allow access to Google.

Barry

[Knot Head]

Hello everyone. Sorry it has been a while since my last communication. I have been busy with the job as of late and working on my own projects for my website. With that in mind, I will convey that this project I am still working on but mostly complete building and it is functional and working at 98%... I have on KHWW as most of you know, The Grid Maker made by Tim Alwine & Son. In a forum discussion we had recently, we talked of a Grid Maker Catalog of a sort. Well, I thought at first this is going to be a box of worms waiting to roll out and dump on the ground for me. But out of plain curiosity I built one with a wiki type concept and approach. This project is very custom and more suited for the knot tier and leather braider to upload and catalog their grids they make with the Grid Maker.

I will have the Grid Catalog out this Friday for use by my website members to try out and see if they like how it works or not. I will post here to let you all know how it worked out for week or two. On Friday, if any of you are members of KHWW the Grid Catalog will be open to try out. You will be able to gain access to it from the Navigation Menu after you login to KHWW.

In the mean time, if this application works and serves the need of my site, I was thinking of building a similar application for the Abook Index. Now I can add another login page to it so that only the ones that are assigned to the work can gain access to the Abook Index. I believe I will leave this decision to the other members here that are committed to this kind of project on whether I should proceed with building the database and then the pages to fit the database structure.

Brian
 

[Knot Head]

I am so sorry for having to ask this. But I have totally forgotten as to the reason why we are wanting to index the Abook. Could someone help remind me?

Brian...

[KnotMe]

I thought it had something to do with putting names to the numbers and getting a proper count of the knots actually in the book, but maybe that's just what I want an index of ABoK for.

[Knot Head]

Thanks Carol. I appreciate the respond.

Brian...