Double Dragon vs. Perfection Loop for "End of Line Loop"

[Mike]

I would like everyones opinion on wich is better in terms strength, ease of tying, ease of untying, ect.
I am trying to find a strong and practical alternative to the popular Bowline.  For some reason, and I don't realy know why,  I just don't like the Bowline.  The Double Dragon and Perfection loop, so far, are the two best alternatives I have found.

[Sweeney]

Have you tried a loop based on the Zeppelin/Rosendahl Bend - less likely to jam perhaps?

[JNZ]

try figure of nine or figure of ten- fig 9 is less bulky, I use it in rigging climbs etc in slings cos it's much easier to untie after loading than a figure 8. It's supposed to be stronger as well.
Cheers

[Mike]

Have you tried a loop based on the Zeppelin/Rosendahl Bend - less likely to jam perhaps?

Wow, I forgot about that one.   Still, I think I will limit my choices between the DD or perfection.

[Mike]

try figure of nine or figure of ten- fig 9 is less bulky, I use it in rigging climbs etc in slings cos it's much easier to untie after loading than a figure 8. It's supposed to be stronger as well.
Cheers

I want a loop that can be tied around an object if needed.  Figure 9 can't be.  Figure 8 can be very hard to untie after a heavy load.

[alpineer]

The Farmer's Loop can be tied as an end of line loop, and, like the Bowline can be put around an object prior to the knot's tying.

[Mike]

I would like to stick to my original choices.  More choices makes it more confusing.
I'm going to stick with DD or Perfecton. I'm just looking for some real world comparison and opinions between the two.

[roo]

I would like to stick to my original choices.  More choices makes it more confusing.
I'm going to stick with DD or Perfecton. I'm just looking for some real world comparison and opinions between the two.

The Perfection loop jams.  I would avoid it.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, the so-called Double Dragon Loop does not have good method of tying around or through an object before closing, as a good end loop should.   I would avoid it, too.

I would only consider the strength of a knot in rope as a tie-breaker.  If two knots have identical qualities in every other way (easy of tying/remembering, jam-resistance, security, etc.) only then would I look to which one is stronger to make a decision on which to use.   Strength of a knot in rope should be largely irrelevant if properly-sized rope is used.

[roo]

The Farmer's Loop can be tied as an end of line loop, and, like the Bowline can be put around an object prior to the knot's tying.

I am extremely skeptical of this claim.  How would you tie a Farmer's Loop through a hole in a post, for example?  I cannot imagine it would be anything but hopelessly difficult.

[Mike]

  As I've mentioned elsewhere, the so-called Double Dragon Loop does not have good method of tying around or through an object before closing, as a good end loop should.   I would avoid it, too.

I have no problem tying the DD around an object or through a hole. It's actually very easy.  Easier than the perfection for sure.

[roo]

  As I've mentioned elsewhere, the so-called Double Dragon Loop does not have good method of tying around or through an object before closing, as a good end loop should.   I would avoid it, too.

I have no problem tying the DD around an object or through a hole. It's actually very easy.  Easier than the perfection for sure.

Then you must have found some secret new way.   The only attempt at diagramming such a method that I've seen was a mess that had far too many ways to make a mistake. 

[Mike]

I will try to get some pictures or a video soon.

[alpineer]

The Farmer's Loop can be tied as an end of line loop, and, like the Bowline can be put around an object prior to the knot's tying.

I am extremely skeptical of this claim.  How would you tie a Farmer's Loop through a hole in a post, for example?  I cannot imagine it would be anything but hopelessly difficult.

Hi Roo,
Just feed the rope through the hole before you begin tying the knot. Try tying the Farmer's Loop any way you like and put your foot in the Eye Loop. Now back the bitter end of the rope out of the knot. You're now left with a Loop and the Working End of the rope. It should be "hopelessly" obvious by now how easy it is to tie this knot, through a hole in, or, around a post. Bearing in mind the name of the knot, I would assume it to have several applications on the farm. 

[roo]

I will try to get some pictures or a video soon.

Pictures or drawings would further the discussion.  Video might be a bit offputting for a  segment of readers due to speed and plug-in issues.

[roo]

Alpineer,

As you may know, the Farmer's Loop can assume a number of forms depending on how forces are applied to it as it is drawn up.  I think I may have found a form that allows a method of end-tying that borders on memorable for knot enthusiasts.  This must be what you have in mind.

To use bowline imagery, the rabbit goes under the hole toward the tree, around the tree, and then goes into the hole, under its own path, and back out of the hole.   Does this sound familiar, or am I chasing the wrong form?

The form I originally tried made me think you were being quite optimistic about people's spatial memorization abilities.  Anyway, I hope this isn't too much of a diversion from the original focus of the thread.