I'm a newbie here (reckon I've got at least 6 months' to use that excuse) and most of this is way over my head. But that's never stopped me chipping in on other forums.
Hi Derek and Dave,
As usual, you two are way out in front of all and thank you for that! I have a minor suggestion - if we use the term "-logy" to end the word describing knotting (root of -logy is Greek as in -logo or Latin as in -logia) then perhaps using the same root to describe "knot" is appropriate? The word for studying knots then comes out as Nodology - what do you think of that? SR
Call to all you academics out there... So I have to ask those who might know - should the term in fact be Nodeology (with an 'e'). I have to admit, I feel considerably better at the inclusion of an 'e'. Perhaps also, if this field ever touches the heady heights of University study, students might have an easier time if we drop the little yellow coupe association as quickly as possible.
Note - Lasse uses the tag line of 'Nodeo, ergo sum' which he tells me is his version of 'I knot, therefore I am'. Although light hearted, I can't think of a more appropriate sentiment. Derek
Here's a quote from the knottyers Yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/knottyers/message/7035):
"According to University of Notre Dame on-line dictionary:
http://www.archives.nd.edu/latgramm.htm
nodus -i m. [a knot; a girdle; any tie , bond, connection, obligation;
a knotty point, difficulty].
nodo -are [to knot , tie in a knot].
nodosus -a -um [full of knots , knotty].
Neither "nodi" nor "nodology" are listed in their book
According to "Collins Pocket Latin Dictionary:
nodo - (verb transitive) "to knot, tie"
nodosus (adjective) "knotty"
nodus (masculine) figurative "knot, knob, girdle, knotty point"
In addition the suffix "ology" is an informal Greek noun, so whether
it could be added to a Latin word is debatable."
So Nodology and Nodeology might both be incorrect (mixing a Latin prefix with a Greek suffix). It looks like "kombos" is the Greek word for knot: http://www.greekkomboloi.com/. Personally, I prefer Knotology because it's clear and unambiguous, and therefore it avoids confusion. I'll post some thoughts on the Wiki soon. Dave
Mixing our Greek with our Latin: There is, of course, some precedent for this: TeleVision. And if Greek can be mixed with Latin, then English can be mixed with Latin. Which leads us safely to
Knotology.
Having said that, I do not wish to tread on the toes of someone (the paper-strip origamists) who have already coined the word Knotology. We may feel we have far more right to the word, and we are much bigger than them, but we should show graciousness in our might.
Which leads me, personally, towards Nodology. Besides, it sounds more "important" than mere "Knotology".
Should it be Nodology or Nod
eology? My Latin is not up to making the decision, but I'd suggest we look at similar words, where a noun with a long final vowel and ending in the letter "e" is converted to an "~ology". We should, however, bear in mind that many 'ologies appear to have been formed not from an english noun ending in an "e", but from an earlier Latin root - in our particular case, nod~ rather than node.
Here's a list of words ending in "~ology". Okay, "Ideology", "Theology" and "Arch(a)eology" are common examples of such a word, but their "e" is pronounced - would we want the e" in "Nodeology" to be pronounced? I wouldn't have thought so.
Precedent isn't everything, but in the absence of a good reason to the contrary I'd argue we should follow precedent. My vote (not that I'm suggesting that this is a democracy, and if it is, my vote should be under-weighted) would therefore be for
NodologyI fully understand (I think!) Derek's point about "this is a language for the knot geeks" or words to that effect. I recognise that such a language has different needs from the language used by "normal" people. Nevertheless, it would be nice if it can share as much with normal English as possible. As regards the dot notation - I'm guessing, Derek, you are a big fan of Object-Oriented programming? My favourite language is
Ruby But even Excel can produce unexpected benefits; a while ago I translated a pile of pension legislation into an Excel app. One of the things that surprised me was that the discipline of writing the Excel formulas etc exposed ambiguities and weaknesses in the legislation, the understanding of the legislation, and the application of the legislation. I suspect the same is likely to prove true of progress towards encoding the knotting process. Even if the resulting code/lexicon is not used much, the exercise of creating it will prove to have been usefully illuminating. I suspect the only tangible value (though I concede it could be a significant value) of an improved written language of knots would be as an aid in computerising the knotting process. I suspect Derek and Dave and co are way ahead of me on this.
Finally, one of the things that has amazed (and perhaps disappointed) me on the IGKT forum generally is that people use language to describe knots when a photo or two would be a hundred times more meaningful. It takes time and effort to arrange a knot neatly, clearly showing cross-over points etc, to photograph it and then to load up the photo, but it is
so much more intelligible to a human than is any written description.