Author Topic: Animated Knots Website Updated  (Read 5576 times)

Alan W. Grogono

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Animated Knots Website Updated
« on: June 22, 2005, 01:34:54 AM »
I have now completely updated:
http://www.grogono.com/knot

Forgive my starting a new thread, but having been out of action for ten days, I have failed to reply adequately to the many excellent ideas and suggestions made under the previous thread "New Animated Knots Website".  

Below is a summary of the changes I have made.  Further comments and suggestions will be welcomed:

1. Nearly every knot now has an ABOK number
2. I tidied up my use of names including stopper, double overhand, half hitch.
3. Eliminated the concept that the fig 8 loop stays "flat".
4. Better illustration for locked bowline
5. Spelling of Klemheist and Bachmann corrected, everywhere I think.
6. Rolling Hitch. Found the proper Ashley # and description of using the second turn tucked up when tied rope on rope.
7. Ashley Stopper (Oysterman's) - my picture is correct at:
http://www.grogono.com/knot/stopper/index.php
For you persistent doubters (Dan?) I have prepared a demo at:
http://www.grogono.com/knot/ashley526small/index.php

There are many other alterations and corrections.  My intention is still to provide a first class teaching site for people to turn to when learning a new sport involving ropes.  There is still much to do and I depend on others to help me achieve this objective.

Finally, total knee replacement is not a lot of fun - worse than the total hip four weeks before.  I am now back at the keyboard and look forward to doing some more work on this project.

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions,

"Grog"  (Alan W. Grogono,  knots@grogono.com)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Animated Knots Website Updated
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2005, 11:26:43 PM »
Quote
7. Ashley Stopper (Oysterman's) - my picture is correct at:
www.grogono.com/knot/stopper/index.php
For you persistent doubters (Dan?) I have prepared a demo at:  
www.grogono.com/knot/ashley526small/index.php

Alan, I am not a "doubter":  I know well how to tie the knot, as I've repeatedly
shown in this discussion; and I've repeatedly tried to guide others to the very fine
knot.  That you persist in your misunderstanding makes me really wonder where it
is that the communication breaks down to you?  It is SUCH a SIMPLE knot,
after all!

I'm sorry that you went to the trouble a demonstration for me, but given those
images, I'll try one more time--but it should be OBVIOUS to any who actually TIE
the knots that you and Ashley present that you have DIFFERENT knots, and the
imposters fail miserably to give the wonderful trefoil stopper face of Ashley's #526.
Please re-read my prior directions!!

Throwing more words after those, though, let me take you endmost images from
your demonstration, viz.#1 & 8.
Actually, let me firstly remark at your COMPARE image:  why do you compare the
(wrong) knot from some other site to what you derive by manipulation instead of
comparing with Ashley's own image, which you have as #1?!  THAT is a telling
point, perhaps?  Actually, I now see that www.physiks.helsinki.fi has it RIGHT, and
you've misrepresented that image by reversing ALL crossings of the Overhand
component:  in the original, the end & SPart cross OVER the side of the Overhand,
and the SPart bight's legs cross Under the Overhand's side; in yours, it's exactly
the opposite, but you kept the crossings for the end (arrowed in original).

Anyway, COMPARE #1 (526) with #2/#8 (what you manipulate to):  note that the
Overhand components--the Overhand Noose, in fact--are mirror images on the
horizontal axis.
Now, note that however the paths of their ends in making the sweeping arc and
final tuck out through the SPart bight DO NOT make mirror images!!
.:.  The two knots aren't the same.  Unless you care to argue that Ashley's stopper
isn't right, then you should conclude that yours and many other images are wrong.
To correct your image#8 you need to have the end, exiting from the Overhand,
cross Over (not under) the SPart, Under (not over) the first leg of the SPart bight,
and Over (not under) the other leg/side.  --all 3 crossings reversed.

You could see the RIGHT knot soooo much more readily if you would follow my tying
guidance to TIGHTEN THE OVERHAND COMPONENT before making any further tuck
of the end.  Then it should be quite perspicuous as to where the end must simply go
to form the 3rd of the trefoil face and be nipped--indeed, it is rather awkward
to take the end anywherElse!  (Moreover, this method is efficient for good setting.)

NB:  If one holds the END of #526 qua SPart, then one can re-form the rest of
the structure to make a Bowline.  (And that certainly isn't the case for the imposters.)
In image#1, pinch the left side of the Overhand component between the exits
(Undercrossings) of the SPart & end, and pull on the bitter end rightwards and
this pinched part (to form the Bwl eye) leftwards.

It further worries me that I seem to be alone in seeing any of this--scary!
(Or alone in caring to work to correct it.)

???
)-:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2005, 11:55:16 PM by Dan_Lehman »

Alan Grogono

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Re: Animated Knots Website Updated
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2005, 02:44:43 AM »
Dan:
Please accept my apologies for doubting you as well as my thanks for your "gentle persistence" to get me to see the error of my ways.  I have now corrected the page:
http://www.grogono.com/knot/stopper/index.php

I have provided new photographs as well as an acknowledgement to you - thank you.

In looking for excuses I am tempted to blame the knee surgery and the pain meds.  Probably wishful thinking - fundamental stupidity and senility far more likely.

Question:  I placed the "Ashley Stopper" at the bottom of the Climbing section on the "Double Overhand".  I think it might be more happily placed in Boating section at the foot of the page on the "Figure of 8".  Any thoughts?

Anyway, I have very much appreciated the many responses and ideas that I have recieved by placing my request on this website.  I wish to remain on cordial terms with you and the other contributors because my next addition to this website will almost certainly be a section on fishing.  This is another subject where I will need a lot of help and I hope this website will prove to be a useful resource again.

Best wishes,

Grog

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Animated Knots Website Updated
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 04:56:47 AM »
Alan, here are some further comments on your site.
Your text:
Quote

Origin: Blake's Hitch was originally described by Heinz Prohaska in Nylon Highway #30 in May 1990. However, it has become widely known as Blake's Hitch and this name is used here.

Pros and Cons: Like the Rolling Hitch, Blake's has the advantage that it can be tied in the end of a piece of rope instead of requiring a Prusik Loop. However, without the protection of the added stopper knot it is a highly unsatisfactory hitch which tends to pull loose far too readily.

THE IMAGE OF THE HITCH IS WRONG:  the end should be
tucked on the other side of the hitched-to rope, such that the draw
of the SPart will TIGHTEN it.   NO stopper is needed!

Actually, Heinz first presented the hitch ca. 1985 in an Austrian periodical;
his English (USA) article came as you noted.  (I think that Gary Storrick's
site carries details?)

--dl*
====

 

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