Favorite Way to Tie Trucker's Hitch

[TMCD]

Keystoner,
What I meant was making a round turn and then cinching down. By taking the working end through the mid line loop twice, it forms a self locking feature similar to the Versatackle and you don't lose tension. It's very easy at that point to tie a couple of half hitches because you don't have to worry about losing tension, it's self locked. The Australian guy actually demonstrates this method in his video.

Now one thing I tend to do when tying the Trucker's Hitch using ABOK 173 (Clove Hitch), is that I push the Clove Hitch together nice and firm, similar to what it would appear like tied to a rail. Most people seem to let the two nips get wide or far apart, I make the knot appear just like an ordinary CH tied to a rail or ring.

[Keystoner]

The discussion about double twist and single twist is irrelevant after you add a Half Hitch by using the ear of the Bell Ringer.  I always add that Half Hitch.  So, I don't know why I got involved with that discussion in the first place.

Considering I used boot laces to observe this, take it for what it's worth...

I've gathered that you're a fan of Lee's Trucker's Hitch.  So am I.  When practicing it with boot laces (I bought them at a Timberland shoe store for the specific purpose of practicing knots!), I've caused the single nip (bowline-similar-loop) to collapse.  The half hitched bight (your ear of the Bell Ringer) remained intact and functional (the TH still worked!), but the nip disintegrated beneath the half hitched bight.  Perhaps in rope where this may be susceptible, tying the second nip (the clove hitch formation that TMCD favors here) would be prudent.  I agree with you though that no corkscrew twisting is advantageous.

[Andy]

I agree with you though that no corkscrew twisting is advantageous.

I, on the other hand, have been tying truckies with real rope on real trucks to hold real cargo on a nearly daily basis for years and years, and I am still not convinced that there is no advantage to the double twist, as my post from the other day mentions, but that probably doesn't count. And thanks for your advice to tie "Lee's half hitch" but I have been doing that for a long time, and it is definitely not "Lee's trucker's hitch", it's a common way of tying it that has been discussed at length.

[Keystoner]

but that probably doesn't count.

Of course it counts.  I don't doubt that your corkscrews work for you.

And thanks for your advice to tie "Lee's half hitch" but I have been doing that for a long time, and it is definitely not "Lee's trucker's hitch", it's a common way of tying it that has been discussed at length.

You may have misunderstood.  My advice was definitely not to tie "Lee's half hitch."  My advice was that if you use a single nip like Lee but don't tie the securing half hitch with the bight like Lee, then hold the bight up (like the Asian fellow) as you haul the working end down to help prevent the single nip from slipping, as you have experienced and pointed out in your post.

Calling it Lee's Trucker's Hitch is a convenient way to distinguish the plethora of YouTube videos.

[Andy]

Thanks for your reply Keystoner, wishing you a fun weekend.

[Keystoner]

I can tell you the dressing in my video above is topologically the same as the Clove dressing.  They're both ABOK #173.  This concept is explained several times in this thread.  However, the dressing in my video (extra [emphasis added] Half Hitch by using ear) is more secure and easier to untie than the Clove dressing.

Gotcha.  As I understand what you're saying:

Lee:  a single nip (a la a Bowline) + extra Half Hitch with ear. 
knot4u: two nips (a la a Clove Hitch) + extra Half Hitch with ear.

Using Lee's combo, I experienced the nip collapsing despite the extra Half Hitched ear with my boot laces.

Using "your" combo, I could not get either of the nips to collapse.  This is truly a robust combination.

However...

I just rewatched your video (you remind me of the Man in Black from A Princess Bride  ).  This may be a lexicon thing as I don't own ABOK to know what #173 is.  I saw you tie the same combo as Lee, that is, you formed only one nip prior to the half hitch with the ear.  Interestingly, you tied your half hitched ear in the opposite direction that I had been.  Trying that, I still get the nip to collapse (with boot laces mind you--and, nevertheless, the TH still worked).  My conclusion is that two nips, cinched together a la a Clove Hitch (and favored by TMCD--not separated like a Sheepshank), plus a Half Hitch with the ear for security, is my "Favorite Way to Tie."  (Note: no corkscrew twisting at any point.)

[Keystoner]

No, I am using Lee's method, as you describe it.  That title is new to me.  I have tied this method in lots of different cord, including boot laces, paracord, and much thicker rope.  I have never had the nip collapse on me.

That title--I coined it. 

Update:  I bought a short length of thin rope (~3/16" diameter) in the climbing section of the local Erehwon.  I tied Lee's Trucker's Hitch (one Bowline nip + Half Hitched bight).  I could not get the nip to collapse with this "real" rope.  Lee is the man!

knot4u, would you be so kind to consider my previous question about avoiding tension loss by cinching the pulley loop around the running part prior to hauling?

[Keystoner]

Andy, I took a look at your "Most Useful Knots" page.  I liked it.  You may not have used a graphic artist to do your pictures but the black arrows are very readable and understandable to me and I like your selection of knots.

With respect to your "Quickie Truckie"...

I recognize the passion regarding the whole corkscrew twisting business.  The title of this thread requests people's "favorite" way to tie a TH.  Everyone has their own favorite.  You like a corkscrew turn.  You have real world experience.  I know it works because it works for you.  I'm writing now because I noticed you put forth Lee's Trucker's Hitch YouTube video as an example of your corkscrew method.  I know there was a debate as to whether Lee actually did a corkscrew turn and you implored others to take a closer look at his video to verify that he did.  I contend he didn't.  Would you take another look and see if Lee doesn't wind up with, what I've been calling, a single Bowlinelike nip around the bight that is drawn from behind it?  I'd like to suggest that the following video shows a more accurate depiction of what you demonstrate on your website:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmwURT5apfs.  Clearly this young fellow corroborates what you've been saying, that a corkscrew turn is a most feasible method to tie a TH.

[TMCD]

If there's anyway someone could get in touch with Lee Bundy and have him do another Trucker's Hitch on you tube it would solve this debate. Lee would need to tie it slowly and explain the various steps as he went, this would be a great educational video not only for us knotheads but for the general public as well.

We've got to much uncertainty on what Lee does with the midline loop part, for the record, I don't see him double twisting or corkscrewing at all. It appears like Lee's simply taking the bunny ear and making a half hitch, nothing more, nothing less...and this method is very reliable, secure and strong.

Can anyone get Lee to make an instructional like video of his method? I'm thinking about making a you tube video with my method, ABOK 173. The great thing about using ABOK 173 is that if you desire, you can simply add a third hitch, essentially creating a clove hitch and a half, making it ultra secure and beefing it up.

[Keystoner]

If there's anyway someone could get in touch with Lee Bundy and have him do another Trucker's Hitch on you tube it would solve this debate. Lee would need to tie it slowly and explain the various steps as he went, this would be a great educational video not only for us knotheads but for the general public as well.

We've got to much uncertainty on what Lee does with the midline loop part, for the record, I don't see him double twisting or corkscrewing at all. It appears like Lee's simply taking the bunny ear and making a half hitch, nothing more, nothing less...and this method is very reliable, secure and strong.

Can anyone get Lee to make an instructional like video of his method? I'm thinking about making a you tube video with my method, ABOK 173. The great thing about using ABOK 173 is that if you desire, you can simply add a third hitch, essentially creating a clove hitch and a half, making it ultra secure and beefing it up.

Well it was easy enough using Google to get his contact information.  Based on his Trucker's Hitch alone, I have a good mind to patronize his guide business here:  http://lcpackers.com/about/

As far as asking him to make another video, it is not necessary.  Except for his preference for the far anchor hitch, for which I'm curious, from his narration, the camera lady's narration, and his demonstration in the video, everything else is very clear to me, and apparently to you too (and knot4u as well).  What I will do, is write the man here http://trailblazersonline.com/?page_id=3, and invite him to join us on the forum.

[Andy]

Hi Knot4U,
Hope the week is starting well for you, thanks for your message.

why didn't you provide the link to your site?

I'm not too happy with many of my old pictures, and I've been meaning to take  more with different grades of rope.

One symptom that the pictures may be inadequate is what you say in see in them. On the one at the top right of the truckie series, there is what I call "twist twice" (the loop to the left of that picture, through which the black arrow is going). I could have twisted only once, and you could still make a truckie. (I have been assuming that this is what you have been talking about, as this works.)

Wishing you a fun week,

Andy

[Andy]

For me it does hold---picture must be foggy. That's the same kind of nip as on a bowline (until you tighten).
Heading out to the garden but will try to post pictures of both at some stage.
All the best,
Andy

[Keystoner]

I'm glad this thread perseveres.  It has afforded me the opportunity to really study the technique of others.

I realize Andy's "Quickie Truckie" is exactly how I tie one of my favorite methods.

Now I see why in your video you tied your securing half-hitched bight in the direction you did, that is, opposite that of Lee--because you also tied the Bowline-like nip in the opposite direction, like Andy!  According to your quote above, you form your nip "exactly" the same way as depicted in Andy's picture.  Clearly (now!) in Andy's pic, the nip is formed by rotating counterclockwise, that is, by twisting the standing part with your right hand toward yourself, which is counterclockwise as one would observe from the right side.  Lee twists away from himself--clockwise as one would observe from the right side.

However Knot4u, you do NOT tie your securing half-hitched bight in the same direction as Andy shows in his pic.  If you did, you would not get the topologically-identical-to-a-clove-hitch formation that you mentioned several times.

Andy, I RETRACT the alternative video I suggested in my prior post.  Your TH is almost identical to Lee's.  The nip is mirrored but the securing half-hitched bight is in the same direction.  Unlike Lee, this does not result in a "Clove Hitch" formation with the secured bight. ETA:  When I test each direction of the half-hitched bight, they both seem to work.

This "double twisting" description was quite the red herring, unfortunately.  Why don't we just use geometry?  Andy, you've claimed vehemently that Lee twists twice, and I believe I know why.  I speculated early on but now I'll use *angles*.  Lee takes the standing part with his right hand and twists 180 degrees away from himself (clockwise as one would observe from the right).  This creates what I have been calling a single bowline-like nip.  Then he twists another 90 degrees in order to insert the bight from below the now horizontal nip.  He could have forgone this "second" twist by inserting the bight from behind the vertical nip he formed with the "first" twist.  Knot4u, you said this twisting business is a moot point once the securing half hitch is formed.  I say the double twisting nonsense is moot if the nip is formed the way this fellow forms it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjIi46dZ08M.  As I alluded to previously, I'll never tie a Bowline by preforming the nip again.  "The rabbit comes out of the hole..."  "What hole?!?"  SILLY!.

BTW, I emailed Lee--never got a response.   

[Keystoner]

Knot4u, I just watched your video A-GAIN!  As I see it, you do NOT tie your nip the same as Andy.  You tie it the same as Lee.  You tie your securing bight in the opposite direction as Lee (whereas Andy ties the nip in the opposite direction and the bight in the same direction).  I do not agree with your assertion that, with the direction you go around with the bight in your video, you wind up with a topologically identical formation to a Clove Hitch.  But yes, since you and Andy each tie one element of the nip/securing half hitch opposite to that of Lee, you both do tie essentially the same combination.

[Keystoner]

By the way, I sent a message to Lee via Youtube, and I did get a response.  I guess you're just not important enough...just kidding!

Rushing to check it right now!