The robustness of the b and d method for tying the butterfly bend

[dmacdd]

Wikipedia shows a b and d method of tying the butterfly bend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_butterfly_bend

I just noticed the following invariance. Some IGKT members may be aware of it but I was not.

Assuming you make the b first, it does not matter whether you pass the working end of the second rope up or down through the loop of the b to form the d, if all other motions are the same you get the same knot -- a correct butterfly bend.

I don't see a way to screw up the making of the butterfly bend by the b and d method that produces anything that looks like the butterfly bend.

[roo]

I don't see a way to screw up the making of the butterfly bend by the b and d method that produces anything that looks like the butterfly bend.

Well, just as long as a real "b" and "d"  (or p&q) is made, you'd be OK.  Make a rotated "b" with a "q", and you'd have trouble.

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/butterflybend.html

[dmacdd]

I don't see a way to screw up the making of the butterfly bend by the b and d method that produces anything that looks like the butterfly bend.

Well, just as long as a real "b" and "d"  (or p&q) is made, you'd be OK.  Make a rotated "b" with a "q", and you'd have trouble.

True, but 1408/1409 seems a _really_ unlikely accidental outcome of a method taught with an emphasized b and d mnemonic....

[roo]

True, but 1408/1409 seems a _really_ unlikely accidental outcome of a method taught with an emphasized b and d mnemonic....

Agreed, but the chances of the error increase rapidly when a sloppily large amount of rope is used.  The chance is also greater for novices who might confuse what part of the rope corresponds to the end of the b/p/q/d forms.

[knot4u]

Assuming you make the b first, it does not matter whether you pass the working end of the second rope up or down through the loop of the b to form the d, if all other motions are the same you get the same knot -- a correct butterfly bend.

Yes, I know this.

Playing around with the Butterfly Bend and Loop, you will also find that there are numerous ways to tie these knots.  I prefer this method below for both the bend and loop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeKLU_6NLv4

That method dresses properly without thinking, and it's easy to remember.  When there is a loop and a bend for a knot, I learn the method that is easiest for the LOOP and then apply that method to the bend.

For me, the b and d method is not natural to use for the loop.  Plus, the "b and d" mnemonic is too similar to the Zeppelin Bend "b and q".  I don't like mnemonics anyway because my preferred method for learning and remembering is visual.