Author Topic: TIB harness tie in  (Read 757 times)

Andreas

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TIB harness tie in
« on: November 15, 2022, 02:46:18 PM »
What are solutions people use for tying in midline?

Fig 8, bowline on a bight ..  connected to the harness via a carabiner are the standard.

When grabbing the carabiener anyways,  ..would this be viable solution?  See pic 






« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 05:24:02 AM by Andreas »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: TIB harness tie in
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2022, 11:18:35 PM »
What are solutions people use for tying in midline, for example to rappel?
I'm trying to imagine what you mean by the above
--climbers don't tie in mid-line to rappel; they don't tie in,
but connect to the abseil rope via a rappel device.

Quote
Fig 8, bowline on a bight ..  connected to the harness via a carabiner are the standard.
Again, this is hardly standard, but in fact PROscribed
(connecting to harness w/'biner).

--dl*
====

Andreas

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Re: TIB harness tie in
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2022, 05:26:56 AM »
Yes rappel has nothing to do wih it. I edited the post.

There are situations where one would connect to the harness midline.

I'd be curious to know what people  come up with as solutions
« Last Edit: November 17, 2022, 02:02:03 PM by Andreas »

agent_smith

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Re: TIB harness tie in
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 10:26:09 PM »
More specific detail would be helpful.
When you say 'mid-line', this can be in 2 different configurations as follows:
1. as a single rope segment; and
2. as a doubled rope segment.

Which one are you thinking of?

In terms of the doubled rope segment, an example is where a lead climber ties into both ends of the rope to lead a short pitch (double rope trad climbing). The 'second' climber would tie-in using the 'bight' that is actually the mid point of the rope.
I recommend 'Scotts locked Bowline' (tied doubled).

In the case of a single rope segment, this would be a third climber tying-in to the mid point of the rope (to make a party of 3).
In this example I recommend #1074 Bowline with a bight. You can even tie 2 'Bowlines with a bight' if force can come bi-directionally.

Note that in both cases, no carabiners are required...

Andreas

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Re: TIB harness tie in
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2022, 03:47:51 PM »
Thanks Mark

I was interested in this generally and in the various solutions, knowing there is a need for them. Which you confirmed plain and clear with your proposed 2 cases and solutions 

The question for midline tie in came up initially, looking at the way anchors are cleaned in a single/sport pitch scenario where the built anchor is taken down after a bight was threaded through a Ring and connected to the harness.  (..to then be lowered )

The picture  below, which I took from your PACI protocols, shows what is often done and recommended by others in this case.  Not finding this solution great I thought about what an improvement involving a carabiner could look like. The toggle solution in the above picture does not need a screw(ed)gate and can not crossload either, can it?
 A clove hitch might also still be better than the fig 8 eye as shown in the pic and the videos. What do you think?



See examples here

https://youtu.be/G7N5RcsSyUw
https://youtube.com/shorts/MUt926Wl1_U?feature=share

« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 06:16:17 PM by Andreas »

agent_smith

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Re: TIB harness tie in
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2022, 11:25:54 AM »
Within the narrow confines of a scenario where a 'sport climber' is transitioning to lower at the anchors at the top of a bolted route...
1. A climber can use a single locking carabiner for this purpose - provided the climber understands 'cyclic loading' and what risks are associated with this phenomena.
2. When using a single locking carabiner for this purpose, the climber must take care to maintain continuous (unchanging) load on the carabiner - and monitor it to ensure it remains in the proper orientation.
3. A skilled climber who is consciously competent (as opposed to unconscious incompetence) - can overcome the risk of misalignment/unscrewing of the gate by carefully maintaining continuous tension and monitoring the carabiner alignment. Different climbers have different tolerance levels of various risks...

...

The example you extracted from the PACI protocols is in relation to rope attachment to a climbers harness for lead climbing and/or top rope climbing applications. Never use a single carabiner 'clip-in' for this purpose.
Reason: While climbing, the single carabiner will be subject to cyclic loading / slack shaking. There is a high probability that the single carabiner will become misaligned. Furthermore, screw-gate locking carabiners are vulnerable to vibration energy, which acts on the screw gate - causing it to unscrew/unlock.

 

anything