The language of what we do

[SS369]

And if we get this together before the dread-line, I think it should be illustrated as well. Pictures being worth thousands of words and all that.

[squarerigger]

Agreed!

[SS369]

Just trying some things out here and input wanted.

a used or unused material for the process of binding or decoration is named  >  line

where the line goes over or under itself or another is named > crossing

An un-straight line  or purposely curved line is named >  curve

A wrapping of line is named > coil or collar

A line that parallels something else is named >  track line

I don't think we will be able to necessarily get away with Not using some existing terms till we've assembled a cross reference list (including pics). And then use it. <?

I have been substituting these words into various sentences (English) and I can follow them. :-)

[squarerigger]

Ah!  Bueno!  That makes music to my old ears - shall I now start a pdf with photographs and word descriptions?

SR

[SS369]

If you would care to do a pdf that is great, but I am hoping that before we do, others will add their melodious voices to this tune.

Anyone?

[Wed]

Here is an example of my contributions. I am also proposing:
True crotch and false crotch. For a wave to rest in (example in pineapple knots)

Edit: exchanged the images to something decent

[squarerigger]

Hi Wed,

I like your illustrations - thanks!  As I understand your true and false -and to clarify my own understanding - this only applies where there is a natural 'bed' in which a wave can rest as opposed to a virtual bed, such as the virtual bed that is used by the outer bights of PKs?

SR

[SS369]

Yes, good illustrations.
I take the same meaning as you Lindsey.
The outer "bights" would be "true crotches"
And in a PK there would be "nested true crotches".
So far correct?

Hope we don't get censored. ;-)

[Wed]

Here we are. I have yet to break them apart for the document. Better to not label  the images for the reference. Even the sheet bend has a true crotch, as I see it. The "locker", working end is squeezed in it.

[DerekSmith]

@Wed  -  stunning graphics - please share with us how you make them.

But what language are you using - where is this true and false crotch you are talking about - what is a crotch in this knotting sense?

Hows about defining terms before you start to use them  and defining acronyms before you throw them around (what is a PK?).

I thought you were aiming for clarity, yet you just lost me...  easily done, I know, but is it your objective?

Derek

[Wed]

@Wed  -  stunning graphics - please share with us how you make them.

I'm using Inkscape for my illustrations. It's a vector editor.

But what language are you using - where is this true and false crotch you are talking about - what is a crotch in this knotting sense?

I attached an image showing the crossing in which a "wave" rests. Images 08 and 09 shows my idea of true and false crotches respectively.

Hows about defining terms before you start to use them  and defining acronyms before you throw them around (what is a PK?).

I used the term "Pineapple knot". It is common to abbreviate it as PAK or PK, as SS369 did.

I thought you were aiming for clarity, yet you just lost me...  easily done, I know, but is it your objective?

Not at all

By the way, the images are hereby released to the public domain. Though it should be said that the ones presented so far needs more work before used for any serious work.

[KnotMe]

An un-straight line  or purposely curved line is named >  curve

are we doing away with "bight" or is this a different sort of curve?

I am also proposing:True crotch and false crotch.

I don't really consider myself much of a prude, but while we are generating new terminology, can we not do this?

[SS369]

I think we are trying (again) to generate new terminology. Unless the existing names are absolutely clear to all.
Can we not think of more decisive/definitive/descriptive terms for Bight or Crotch?

Throw in here and let's see what you've got please.

[KnotMe]

If we're replacing "bight" I'd go with "open loop", but that's just me.

I admit the whole "crotch" thing is passing me by (perhaps because I've not tried my hands at pineapple knots?).  In the initial illustration both images were the same except for the green highlighting, right?  In the following illustration a crossing strand was above a locked intersection (green) and then in the next image the crossing strand was above an open intersection (red).

Suspecting that I'm still missing the point.

[squarerigger]

My synonym finder has "fork, bifurcation, corner, angle, bend, divarication, division, groin" as synonyms for crotch - any of those more pleasant to the ear and, which is more to the point, is more descriptive and clear?  Open loop has a problem when looking at the OP and I suspect that may be part of the problem.  Look back at the OP and you will see that it is intended these words be descriptors of direction rather than just shape, with clarity of shape added by way of vectors or angles.  We are trying to set up, not the framework for words we are already familiar with and confused by, but words that have clarity for us and for others so that we may have a more specific distinction on what we do - action words.  Bight does not have that distinction.  Curve may be described by degree of arc, by radians, by vector position and so on.  It is distinctly different than a straight line, which is taken by some to include a bight (cf. ABOK).  As for the apparent prurience associated with the word crotch, one should really go beyond to look at definition #2 in the dictionary "a fork in a tree, road or river" which may mean that "fork" has some merit, although I must admit to thinking of multiple tines when I think of the word fork, as in dessert fork.

SR