Author Topic: Gleipnir revisited  (Read 4768 times)

[Inkanyezi] gone

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Gleipnir revisited
« on: December 21, 2010, 12:01:25 AM »
The first method that was shown for the Gleipnir is very simple to follow, but I sometimes have found it difficult to make when I tie down a load with shock-cord.

By first forming the TurNip, and then reeving the ends, if the cord is not  rather long, it is difficult both to hold the eye open and to reeve the ends. However, I now make it with another method that does not require reeving the ends.

  • First I make two round turns (or splayed loops), ends meeting on top of the load.
  • Then with one end, I half-hitch over the middle of the cord. (image 1)
  • The other end then follows the half-hitched one in opposite direction. (image 2)
  • When it comes up between the two parts, I haul a bit on both ends. (image 3)
  • When the TurNip is formed, I continue hauling, now up, to even out tensions, whereupon I let it fall back. (image 4)
All images and text of mine published on the IGKT site is licensed according to a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Gleipnir revisited
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 12:44:00 AM »
Excellent.  I had wanted to figure the exact steps here,
by reverse-tying (untying) one of the structures ... .

One advantage not mentioned :  doing the tying in this
way buys one greater tension in the turNip strand (without
having to  deliver tension around it all via the ends)!

(-;

JohnC

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Re: Gleipnir revisited
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2025, 10:56:18 AM »
I was interested in this, but couldn't follow the written steps, and the attachments are gone. The first two photos are visible, but too tiny and I can't see how to get from step one to two.

If anyone understood and memorized this, a new description would be much appreciated.

Edit: I see it now after a bit more fiddling. I will attempt to recast the description in a new post for anyone who follows in these foot-steps.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2025, 11:24:24 AM by JohnC »
John

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Gleipnir revisited
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2025, 10:59:20 PM »
A variation on the original Gleipnir
 (of a knot type I call "Dahm's Floating Binders")
is to fold your binding cordage into a U-fold
and make the nipping turn(s) in the apex of the u-fold,
bringing the two Tails around to poke through this
nipping loop from resp. opposite directions.

Then, one tightens by pulling the Tails away from
each other, roughly perpendicular to binding wraps.
The point is that such tightening immediately pulls
on the nipping turn(s), not having to travel allllll
the way around the bound object.

--dl*
====

JohnC

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Re: Gleipnir revisited
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2025, 12:11:58 PM »
Interestingly, what I got following my interpretation of Inkanyezi's instructions was actually a better knot than what I've been doing all along. It's very similar and has essentially the same characteristics: i.e. it's a simple loop in a centre of the line that catches and holds both ends threaded through it from opposite directions, and works without needing to be against a flat or convex surface.

His is more symmetrical than mine, which is not just aesthetically pleasing: it means that both trapped ends are subjected to the same degree of nip, and this suggests a longer lasting hold. Plus there's no cross-over at the back, which always annoyed me slightly.

So, we have several possibilities:
  • I've been doing it wrong all along and he (and maybe everyone else) has been doing it right, so all this adds is a superior tying method (no small thing).
  • All (or most) of us have been doing an inferior knot and he (perhaps unknowingly) came up with a superior knot, and then a superior method.
  • Option 2, except that he was doing what we all were doing and simultaneously made a better knot and a better method without noticing (I'm sure he would have mentioned it if he did notice).

So, I will track back through the sources I used (although I fear many of the photos will be lost) to see if I got off on the wrong foot and never corrected myself. And I'll also analyse the morphological differences.

Whatever the case, it's win-win for me.

 
John

JohnC

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Re: Gleipnir revisited
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2025, 10:52:35 AM »
I notice the S&P500 dropped 0.8% last night after my post. I hope I didn't scare the market with the prospect of incorrect Gleipnir knots in the wild.

In fact it was just a wardrobe malfunction: i.e. I didn't dress my knot properly. It was the same knot.

When you make a mistake, I find it can be helpful to blame someone else. In this case I was following, slavishly, instruction No.8 on this page: https://www.southee.com/Knots/Knots_Miscellaneous.htm

And in case that page/illustration disappears, I will describe it:
It shows rope that has made a round turn horizontally around a vertical object.
  • The middle part of the rope, with the loop, runs along the bottom.
  • Above that is the left-hand free end, emerging from the back at the left and entering the loop from the left.
  • Above that (at the top) is the right-hand free end, emerging from the back at the right and entering the loop from the right.
This arrangement is then shown in the next picture drawn up without disturbing any of these positions.

Thus: trapped right-hand end at top, trapped left-hand end in middle, trapping loop emerging from the bottom left, rising in the loop to trap both ends and falling back to the bottom to disappear around the back at bottom right. Three parallel lines of cordage.

So, in my simple-minded way, that's exactly what I did. And it worked well enough, even though it's not quite symmetrical, both ends are barely trapped (by compression alone), and there's a cross-over at the back.

Enter our "gone" friend Inkanyezi. I have tied and untied what I believe to be his method, and loosened and tightened it many times, and I see that not only does it provide an easier method, but one that enforces the correct orientation. I think I can actually refine his description to make it clearer. I'll add pictures later, but they may not survive future disk space recovery.

Arrange the bundle horizontally, e.g. on your lap if possible. You may find that binding them with something temporary like a cam-lock strap or rubber band will ease the learning process since you will have both hands free.

Method:
  • Do a round turn starting with the cordage in your left-hand, on top of the bundle, free end pointing up (or away from the body), going under at the bottom of the bundle, around and back, and coming down from the top, held in your right hand and the right free end pointing down.
  • Now, do a half hitch with your left hand, going over the middle strand, then under and holding it again pointing up. [at time of writing, this is the first pic in the original post]
  • Now do the opposite with your right hand: make a half hitch over then under the middle strand, finishing up pointing down.
  • So, now both half hitches can apply pressure to the middle strand.
  • Experimentally pull your hands apart a little and you'll see that the middle strand now comes down, takes a right 90 degree turn and a down 90 degree turn to continue down, but kinked in the middle. And it looks like you now have only two strands with a ladder step in the middle.
  • Bring the two half hitches fairly close together and whole arrangement under a mild amount of pressure (not too much).
  • Here's the cool part ... all you have to do is: describe a counter-clockwise wheel with your two hands, as if turning left in a car; keep going and swap hands when necessary without losing all tension until each side no longer has a half hitch and in fact the two strands you are holding are nearly straight, parallel, and are trapped beneath the loop your wheeling has created. Now just pull your hands apart: left hand down, right hand up.
Voila!

Both ends are trapped, and slightly kinked - i.e. they have a slight tendency to sit at right angles to the the round turn, rather than staying in line with it.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2025, 11:05:20 AM by JohnC »
John