Author Topic: Mobious Bowline  (Read 5394 times)

Willeke

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Mobious Bowline
« on: December 22, 2005, 11:55:14 PM »
Seen on the KHWW site.

Worth having a look: http://www.khww.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=138

Willeke
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

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roo

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Re: Mobious Bowline
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2005, 12:29:12 AM »
It just looks like a Bowline or Dutch Bowline with the end spliced off.  

Calling it a Mobius Bowline doesn't seem appropriate.
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KnotNow!

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Re: Mobious Bowline
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2005, 06:07:25 AM »
Hi, At KHWW Lindsey proposed a better name: "diabowline" which serves me better the Mobious Bowline.  I made one up in some slippery 3 strand plastic (don't know which plastic off hand) and what it gives me is an adjustable loop that won't crawl out to be nothing or need duct tape.  At first blush I really could not see a point but then I remembered the slippery line and frustration.  At that point it really need not be a nice tapered eye but just a few rapid tucks and it works pretty well.  At the KHWW post Lindsey pointed out that many slippery cords are not twisted.. but if you have some 3 strand that defies you (as I do) and you need to be able to adjust the loop (as I do)... this might have merit for you.  It is pretty when done up and tapered... but for my rough and ready service I'll just make it quickly and useful.  Later the decorative task may present it's self.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

knudeNoggin

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Re: Mobious Bowline
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2005, 07:31:30 AM »
Well, it looks like a ... , because it IS a Bwl with an end eye.
"Mobius"?  That is from Rigger's Apprentice (and there from ... ,
some notion of deception?  One can conjecture such things.).
Though really, knot tyers should realize this tying method and its usefulness
say in producing two-eye loopknots from the well publicized Bowline on a Bight.
A single Bwl can be tied similarly, if one doesn't mind having the end brought
back alongside the SPart (as for the "Yosemite Bwl", e.g.).

As Roo's dismissal might indicate, a better knot for the name could
be the bowline where the SPart itself then forms an eye by coming
around to tie through the gooseneck around the appropriate leg of
the first eye--taking it qua SPart for eye#2--and make a closed loop.

Then, having found a catchy (?) name, and a knot to fit, one can
seek a use for it (maybe just to bump one's knot count, eh?)!

::)

*knudeNoggin*

Jimbo_The_Kinky

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Re: Moebius Bowline (spelt rite)
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2005, 01:45:42 AM »
I'm sorry to be a hagstooth on this thread, but could someone please tell me the difference between this knot & ABOK # 1011, except that the latter is seized, where the former is splice-tucked?  (Personally, I'd prefer this one over 1011, as I hate wasting even marline.)

Also, is there any difference between this one and ABOK # 73, except that 73 is tied as a bend, where this one is "a bend with one rope", meaning a loop...  Surely this forum has recorded the discussion of how bends can be used to form loops...  ???

And speaking of which, where would one use something like this (MBwl)??  I could swear I've seen it before, but attached to something...  A harpoon maybe?  Ummmm....  (gone a-ferreting...)

((A N D   W H Y   T H E   H E L L   D O   T H E   S P E E C H   P O L I C E   T H I N K   " H A R P O O N "   I S   A   "HARTHINGY"? ? ?)

Also, PABPRES, how is this one "adjustable" but a "normal" Bwl is knot?  Isn't the only difference the treatment of the end?

Oh, and has anyone come up with a "better" tying method?  I had to go dig up the "rabbit & hole" method, as I had forgotten it.  But the only way I get to the pix is if the rabbit takes a detour into LH BWL land...  Otherwise, I don't see how to "capsize the eye" correctly (it's inside the loop)...  I somehow end up with an "extra" tuck, unless I unreeve the SPart from somewhere...  And even if I make a LH Bwl whatever way, reeving the Bwl through the eye makes a mess when I do it.


But wait, there's more!  I can throw an OH in the end near the eyelet, then reeve the OH through the eyelet (reach through the eyelet, grab the OH crossover & reeve it through) & fair (for loop & Bwl config) by reaching through the reeved OH, holding the (unrolled) eyelet & pulling the SPart, and that works sweetly.  Except the eye is unrolled, which leaves a hockle, but the Bwl turn (the "rabbit hole") girdles the hockle pretty well...  From my hands, anyway.


I freely admit I'm missing something.  I'd appreciate some help in determining what.

PS: I'll leave you a vulnerability:  I'm all out of 3-strand, as my pets are devoted to the 3-strand to chain splice experiments I've been doing.  Now that Christmas is over, a friend has a backhoe for destroying cordage safely, so the update as to the splice will be forthcoming.  But meanwhile, where you can hammer me is, I'm doing this in slickery hollow-braid Polypropylene ski rope.  However, before you yell "A-HA", let me remind you the only reason for 3-strand in the pix is for splice tucking.  I have a wee eye by a different method, but it still serves the purpose.  Try it!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 01:51:54 AM by Jimbo_The_Kinky »

merickson

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Re: Mobious Bowline
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2005, 06:22:56 PM »
Yes, it is like ABOK #1011 with a splice instead of a seizing. And it is the loop form of a Beckett Hitch (#73). The MBln was introduced to me as a curiosity; a trick knot, but there is no trick to tying a Beckett Hitch.


To tie it, I hope these pictures help:
http://www.geocities.com/wefnut/out/mbl1a.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/wefnut/out/mbl2a.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/wefnut/out/mbl3a.jpg

or look at #1080. The twist can be worked out the bosom of the eye.

Since Roy came up with a practical use for this (clever guy), I've been wondering if the loop could be made with a Marline Eye (#2772). (Tucking the whole end.) And whether other knots could be seized with a marline splice. And whether the marline splice could be untied after use.

The "marline seizing" might be a way to lock knots into slippery rope.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2005, 06:24:39 PM by merickson »

Brian_Grimley

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Re: Mobious Bowline
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2005, 09:51:21 PM »
merickson,

Your mention of the Marline Eye Splice and slippery rope brought to mind hollow, single braid  ropes; specifically, the spectral single Braid and various eye splices. One type of eye splice in spectra is shown here: http://www.berkeleypoint.com/learning/singlebraid.html .

Effectively, the eye's splice serves as a stopper knot  for the Bowline. Perhaps it need not be whipped as it is above. With a little "unmilking" and a little luck, the unwhipped eye splice may simply slip apart if one wants to undo it.   ;D

For some strange reason this "Mobious Bowline" brought ABOK #2780 to mind: a Honda Knot with a Side Spliced End. Perhaps it came to mind because a splice again replaces a stopper knot.

Brian.

Jimbo_The_Kinky

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Re: Mobious Bowline
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2005, 10:09:42 PM »
Quote
One type of eye splice in spectra is shown here: http://www.berkeleypoint.com/learning/singlebraid.html

Oooooo!  That's a 'Nother Good 'un!!

Actually, though, what he's making is also known as a "Brummel" eye splice.  His method is the "modern" style, which doesn't pass the bitter end, but it looks just like the Brummels I make every other day.

The whipping isn't really needed, though, as the tucks will provide low-load security.  IMHO, whipping is a "necessary evil", so I avoid it where possible.  But that's just me, and you know what a freak I am!  8)  As a matter of fact, I've tested these with much less bury than "normal", and the cross-tucks seem to add "high-load" security to some extent as well!!  Meaning you can get away with a much shorter bury if you want to.

And I, too, was drawn to the Honda Knot, but I thought it was just because I'm making my horsey neice a nice lariat & just happened to "be there" already.

Has anyone tried just sticking an OH through the eye & fairing it?  I now see the proper technique, of course, but my clabbered-up version is pretty fast...