Author Topic: Improved Trucker's knot  (Read 10055 times)

WilWait

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Improved Trucker's knot
« on: May 18, 2006, 12:02:40 AM »
Greetings.

This is my first posting, therefore my first question.

Has anybody heard of any issues with weaknesses or stregnths with Josh's version of a "quick release" Trucker's knot?

Here's where you'll find it:

http://www.joshwash.com/truckersknot.html

And here's his story:

* * * *

It's used to tie down the cargo on a truck's bed. You don't have to find the end of the rope to make this knot. And you can really, really tighten it just by pulling. One long rope can go from one hook to the next, with each knot separately tied.

The wonderful thing about this knot is that you can undo it by simply
twisting the top loop. You can't do that with a "regular" trucker's knot
some boy scouts may know. I always teach this knot to my new workers.

It really comes in handy!

* * * *

Thanks and kindest regards.

Wil

squarerigger

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2006, 01:04:19 AM »
Hi Wil,

This version is very similar to I think it is Des Pawson's Trucker's Hitch (or is it Lorry Hitch?) and has the advantage of being quick to tie, as long as the person tying it knows what they are doing.  The weakness that I have found with it is that, if you don't tighten it well, or if you use slippery line (such as the dratted trucker's rope in polypro) it can come undone with vibration.  Taking an additional turn around the trapped bight helps to jam it in place and it is no less easy to undo.  Also, be very wary of that upper bight being long enough - maybe even stick a stick in it to help keep it trapped?

SquareRigger

KC

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2006, 02:59:08 AM »
This is a 3:1 - Friction  mechanics / Z-Rig.  The lower loop that bitters bends through gives extra Friction because of cinching closed/ not being an open eye.

i prefer a Butterfly; especially with something slippery in eye for even less friction, like krab or rescue pulley etc.  Also as friction free a lower (5) yellow anchor.

Can get more power into any of the arraingmeants by A) pulling up after (5) as you pull down on bitters equal and opposite to each other, then lean bodyweight in addition to that down on Bitters / tail.
B) Following and intermittently with above until cinched tight bend these 2 tight lines and capture additional purchase behind friction buffer of yellow (5)

Then, when tight/ lock off to self with 2 half hitches at non-spreading points; then take the Bitters / Tail and use it to bend the tightend rig perpendicularily and tie off to another anchor,  or around anchor, and back to bend around rig and back to anchor to 3:1 again at a perpendicular angle to original rig.

Fantastic leverage; especially if 2nd 3:1 can only bend 1st 30 degrees or less.  

Inline pulls are great, but even greater if used to stiffen line, to then bend it perpendiuclarily as opposed to inline.  Inside of knot forces we find mosly these bends that manipulate force, without the straight parts that don't.  The small amount of space inside a knot lacing, can't spare room to the non-manipulating straight parts for the most part!!

Or something like that!
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Boy_Scout

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2006, 04:15:58 AM »
My experience with this knot says that it's not great.  When camping, especially here in the Pacific Northwest (USA), wet synthetic line is more of a rule than a common occurance, i find that it fails.  Adding a second wrap to the top causes it to be more likely to capsize.  Personally I just use a slip knot.  it is stronger, and more secure than either of the other versons without becomming impossible to untie like the butterfly or directional figure 8.

Hope this helps!

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2006, 08:48:14 AM »
Quote
My experience with this knot says that it's not great.

Yeah, it's always looked rather sketchy, IMHO.  And there are many alternatives,
many pretty quick/simple.

Quote
Personally I just use a slip knot.  it is stronger, and more secure than either of the other versons without becomming impossible to untie like the butterfly or directional figure 8.

Hmmm, how do you know how strong it is?!!
Note that the Slip Knot needs to be set in a certain orientation so as to give it
the nice Bowlinesque collar which enables the easy untying--pretty quick &
simple.  As for the Directiona (Inline) Fig.8, I recommend scrapping that for the
Fig.10 version--one additional full wrap (and bring this extra wrap back over the
prior one).  The 8 is just a Square/Reef bend when loaded on the ends; the 10 will
work better (but not for THIS application).  An Overhand loopknot should also
work pretty well, and is quick to tie.  There are also some sort of Inline Bowlines,
and others that can be tied; simply tying a Bwl but with a bight qua end will give
one a doubled eye for better wear distribution of the fall line run through it.

--dl*
====

knot4u

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 09:05:53 PM »
http://www.joshwash.com/truckersknot.html

That version in the original post is merely OK.  A major fault is that casual tampering may cause it to spill/loosen.  I would make two modifications.  First, I would not make the twists at #2.  Second, I would tie a locking Half Hitch by using the bight at #3 (even more preferable is a Span Loop right there).  The result is the following Trucker's Hitch that's tamper resistant and easy to untie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcz-D0kxiwo
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 08:00:21 PM by knot4u »

PwH

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2011, 03:00:39 PM »
I've used this exact knot innumerable times in my 40 odd years of work in farming and the Electrickery supply industry. Properly tied and set I've never had it fail on me. I believe the twists shown at 2 are essential to firm up the eye. I have had it fail without those twists, but never with. This is not theory, just experience. I've used it for bales, steel frames, camping gear, rubbish going to the tip, wood of all kinds, planks, boards, cables - well absolutely anything I ever wanted to tie down to anything. It's my second favourite practical knot just behind the Rolling Hitch. It is so much easier to be able to just shake it out of the rope when you are finished with it. I have sometimes made a long ear in slippy rope and half hitched that around the standing part to be more secure.  For guylines I use the Rolling hitch. It works for me!

Cheers, PwH
Is a Round Turn just a Grossly Overfed Seabird?

knot4u

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2011, 07:53:35 PM »
Just to share experience, I've had the knot in the original post fail on me numerous times after minor tampering.  The knot in the original post is more susceptible to tampering than just about any other version of the Trucker Hitch.  Further, the knot in the original post has an intentional feature of loosening if you pull on the ear at #3.  If you're not a trucker who's constantly tying Trucker Hitches, then you likely don't need that feature at all.

I'm just a regular guy who needs Trucker Hitches to stay put in some homemade exercise equipment.  If the knot is going to get bumped or otherwise messed with for no good reason, then I suggest going with something that is not going to loosen with minor tampering.  The description I provided above gives you that assurance.  Whatever you do, don't take my word for it.  Test it out for yourself.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 08:01:28 PM by knot4u »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 08:26:38 PM »
PwH, I imagine that not only the twist, but also not-too-long-an-eye
helps stabilize the structure (essentially, concentrating the effect of the
twist vs. having it *amortized* over a longer eye).  One could try a
Clove hitch instead of the single turNip of the classic structure, too.

Still, I'm w/Knot4U in wanting greater assurance --just would rather ... .

And seeing the abuse put on the rope in Knot4U's video link (i.e., the
hard rubbing of rope through eye), I'd prefer some quickly formed
TWIN-EYE knot (and tying a bowline with a bight-end achieves this,
among other simple structures).  The doubled eye should ameliorate
the abrasion felt by the rope in either eye, and maybe be less of a
frictional impediment to hauling.

While the shaking-undone sure must be nice, the untying of many
alternative eye-structures is hardly onerous.

.:. many ways to skin this cat (at times for particular reasons).


 ;)

PwH

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011, 12:58:18 AM »
Knot4u, I agree this knot would not be ideal in your usage in exercise equipment. This knot is only stable under constant strong tension. Any slackening off or longditudinal movement in the rope will spill it. On a securely tied down load its great, but that really is its only safe use. I certainly would not use it for life critical applications. The very slight risk of it spilling when holding a load, especially as it will be one of many, each more or less independent of its fellows by half hitching the rope on the hook below the hitch, is acceptable. This is the only variant I have seen in the UK, though these days it is almost always restricted to holding down the wagon sheets on open bodied trucks. Loads themselves are secured with rachet straps or cam over chain sets nowadays.

Dan, I've never tried your suggestion of double loops, but I have a feeling that it would be so unlikely for the 2 loops to be perfectly the same length (specially if I tied them!), that in effect only one loop would be in play. As for shaking undone , if you've got 10 or more of these on a trailer full of bales that have to be handballed off before dark, it's just absolutely great! Not so much now as most bales are mahusive machine handled things. And tying them in front of an amazed audience of casual labourers sure does the ego a power of good too!

Cheers, Pwh.
Is a Round Turn just a Grossly Overfed Seabird?

knot4u

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Re: Improved Trucker's knot
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 05:03:34 AM »
I started a new thread for reducing wear on a rope in a Trucker's Hitch.
http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=2812.0
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 08:58:31 AM by knot4u »

 

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