Author Topic: member status  (Read 29725 times)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: member status
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2006, 07:23:17 AM »
Again, I'd like to better understand how the rating system works.
E.g., to date, I see a range of  -1 .. +1 displayed; what is the full
extent/potential?

And the rating attaches to the poster, here, not to a particular post
(which would have an effect like highlighting text--"READ THIS!").

Conceivably, it might be that only positive ratings should be given?

--dl*
====

(The system could rate for quality of spelling!   :D  )

Andre van der Salm

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Re: member status
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2006, 03:29:17 PM »
hi,

If I had known on beforehand the discussion was going the way it went I wouldn't have started this thread at all. I am beginning to ask myself if we really do need a rating system at all?!  Perhaps we should rest our cases and get back to what we are best in ....KNOT TYING !!

just a thought...please don't feel offended that is not my intention

have a nice weekend
André

WebAdmin

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Re: member status
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2006, 11:57:58 AM »
Don't worry Andre, we'll forgive you ;D

Anyway, with regard to the rating, I think Mel was just trying to find a compromise.    If she can't do the things that we were asking for, this was possibly the next best thing.

As you say - let's get back to knotting.   Not that I know anything about tying up bits of string - I leave all that to Jeff :)

Lesley
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bazz

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Re: member status
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2006, 03:07:49 PM »
How Do All ;D

Any member of the this Forum that is also a member of the IGKT, and may not like being known as a Newbie, since this may give the impression to some that they are new to Knot Tying, may wish to show the fact that they are an IGKT member and / or how long they have been a member of the IGKT on their posts, as I have done under my avatar to give you an example :-\
you can do this by changing the text / picture section in your profile,

I hope this is of help to some of you long standing IGKT member "newbies"  ;)

Take care,
Barry ;D



KnotNow!

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Re: member status
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2006, 07:44:17 AM »
This is wonderful.  The best option.  I wish I had thought of it.  I will bite my tongue when excluded (well earned) and be gald to contribute when my point makes a point.
ROY S. CHAPMAN, IGKT-PAB BOARD.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: member status
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2006, 06:24:35 AM »
Again, I'd like to better understand how the rating system works.
Still ... !! ??

Quote
And the rating attaches to the poster, here, not to a particular post
(which would have an effect like highlighting text--"READ THIS!").
It would be nice--better, IMHO--if ratings were given per post,
attached/displayed at the post; one could also somehow average
that to a member, if desired.

Coming to a post whose author is rated +X/-Y seems less helpful than
were that rating for the particular contribution there.  Well-rated posts
would command attention.  (Negatively rated posts might hint at what
was wrong; at least, the search for understanding would be limited to
the post.)

--dl*
====

bazz

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Re: member status
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2006, 08:37:20 AM »
Again, I'd like to better understand how the rating system works.
Still ... !! ??

Hi Dan,
It would appear that the ratings system is there so that after reading a post the veiwer can judge if the post was helpful, interesting, relevant or not, as you point out this effects your overall rating and is displayed in every posting.
This system could be used maliciously by some, giving thumbs down just for the hell of it, there by giving helpful posters a bad rep, that is if you take any notice of ratings, instead of the content of the post.
It may be a case that this is the only option available with this forum template ???

You would be best off emailing the Web Mistress for a better understanding of how, why, where and when.


I hope this helps.
Barry :)

DerekSmith

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Re: member status
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2006, 08:42:45 AM »
Well, I haven't posted for about a week now and yet still my 'Quality' rating continues to accumulate negative votes.  So it's not what I am posting that is causing the reaction, it's what I have previously posted.  Either that, or someone just has a dislike of my contribution style and is taking frequent opportunity to 'Black Spot' me.

Being contentious is not an issue for me and if I can widen a thread by offering alternative perspectives then I am happy to do so, even though that threatens to result in a steady accumulation of 'Black Spots'.

However, what has always been an issue for me is COWARDICE.  The purpose of any forum is to post views and then to air alternative views and perspectives.  It's the modern equivalent of Speakers Corner where we can all postulate, comment, agree and disagree in any measure we  care to contribute.  In turn, the forum is 'listened to' by those who find its content and banter of interest.  Many people are scared to make their comments under their own name and prefer the anonymity of a username, yet because we are not likely to meet or know one another, there is little difference between  our real names and a forum name (I claim that I post under my real name, yet only one other person on this forum knows if that is the truth or not)

When we post, our contribution is signed with our chosen 'name'.  If others have critical comment to our posts, they can direct their fury, anger, ridicule at us directly, whether we use our real name or a chosen forum name.  In doing so, we are granted the right to reply.

However, the 'Black Spot' system allows those amongst us who are cowards, to effectively post a 'negative opinion' whilst remaining in the safety of total anonymity.  When someone posts a 'Black Spot' against you, there is no opportunity to consider why, no chance to argue your case, no chance to expose your accuser as an idiot or fool.  No chance to convince other readers that your accuser is simply wrong, because you do not even know why they have given you the 'Black Spot' nor who they were.

In the past I have spoken up against Willike and webmistress when their proposals were in my opinion inappropriate.  They did not like my comments, but they knew the critical comments were from me and they were both able to respond as they felt appropriate (and they did!!).  Today however, were I to feel cowardly, I could simply Pooh them with copious 'Black Spots' in order to degrade their quality status.  The purpose of such an action would be solely to hurt them without giving them any chance of reply.

Readers of this post might think - 'Smithy's only up in arms because he's got the worst quality score', and certainly my present record position of six 'Black Spots' sure paints me as a crap contributor.  But that is not why I believe the present system is a backwards step.  I have a tough old hide and only the opinions of my family and close friends could cause me to question my self belief.  Certainly the bitchiness of some coward, voting me 'Black Spots' has no impact on me, but then, like I said, I am a tough old bugger.

My concern is for those of our members and potential members with a less self confident outlook than mine.  Lasse_C has brought up the issue of attracting new members and Webmistress questioned why we have so few female posters.  While we are considering ways to increase the flow of interest and members, we must also be keeping a close eye on disincentives.  Providing a high profile way to promote bitchiness, is, I believe, a major disincentive to those who are more sensitive than most of the tanned old leather that currently inhabits this site.

I continue to hold the position that this present system of anonymous voting is bad, and should be removed before we start to loose members to 'Black Spot Bitchiness Syndrome' (BSBS) - (yes, that is a double dose of BS).  Accountable voting would be good - click on the Quality score for a list of who voted and against which post - but a simplistic bitch mark system is worse than valueless it is potentially damaging to future membership - I vote that, in its present form, it goes.

DerekSmith

Willeke

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Re: member status
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2006, 03:48:05 PM »
I have never voted for, or even wanted the new system of quality points. I have also never given one yet.
But I would ask for a longer tryal periode. Do not vote down a system when it has not run a week, (as it has when the first time it was asked to be changed) or even a month, (which will be an other few weeks.)

I have today enabled the option << >>
However, I can restrict the awarding of 'Quality ratings' to posters who have achieved a certain number of posts (eg 100 posts) if this is required.

Is it time to ask Mel to restrict the awarding to the members who have a certain amount of post?
And if so, how many?

Willeke
"Never underestimate what a simple person can do with clever tools,
nor what a clever person can do with simple tools." - Ian Fieggen

Writer of A booklet on lanyards, available from IGKT supplies.

DerekSmith

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Re: member status
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2006, 12:11:36 PM »
Willeke,

If you insist that we trial the Quality system for a month, then OK, set the voters elligibility level to something significant like say 340, or better still, allow it to track as the number of posts increases over time by setting it to say 10.5% of the total number of posts.

Happy voting.

wydonknot

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Re: member status
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2006, 01:15:15 PM »
Mr Smith, I understand that you are not a member of the IGKT, please leave the running of this Forum to those who are or who have spent considerable time and effort in its running.   Do you not think that the reason for your accumulation of ‘Black Spots’ could be that other Forum members are becoming rather fed up with your continuing criticisms?

One who is not a coward
Jeff Wyatt
Immediate Past-President, IGKT
Jeff Wyatt

Website: www.wydon.co.uk

bazz

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Re: member status
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2006, 02:10:49 PM »
How Do All,
I am a member of many forums not all of them to do with Knotting, nearly all of the forums have a voting system in place, either to vote on posts, pictures or uploaded files.
the one thing I have noticed is that in every one of these forums there is not one single post, mention or winge about the voting system, maybe these people have more interesting things to discuss and don't give the voting systems a thought, if they even noticed them there in the first place?

Derek, since you are a tough old bugger, and not affected by the many "Black spots" ? that you have received then you won't be upset if the system stays.

I am not a coward and have given you a thumbs down ( read black spot if you like) for moaning about something not worth moaning about, :-X You may return the favour if you wish.

Take care,
Barry ;D


DerekSmith

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Re: member status
« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2006, 05:55:39 PM »
Yo Barry,

Thanks for bringing a smile to my face and some perspective to the issue as well as another well earned 'Black Spot' to my growing stack.

You are of course quite right that I will not personally be the slightest upset if the voting system stays, nor with the innevitability that I will continue to attract a growing stack of Pooh votes.  As I commented earlier, my concern with this system is that is promotes abuse and could lead to putting off newer members who might take a stack of negative votes to heart.  With a tiny membership base of 408 they are all precious and we need the mechanics of this board to nurture them without providing a system which promotes abuse.

It is a point of interest that contributors to this forum do indeed find this topic most interesting, driving this post into its third page - not a very common situation.  It seems the move to this great new Forum software (Props to the Webmistress) has sparked interest in the service of the forum itself, which for a short time will pose more interest than the field of knotting itself.  I don't think that is a bad thing though.  Equally of note, is the observation that very few of the posters have so far had anything good to say about this voting system and concerns have been expressed about its potential for abuse.

Still, If I continue to rack up a good old stack of 'Black Spots', then as others occasionally get smitten with them, they will not feel quite so upset, after all, Derek's got a great stack of them and he's not worried about it.

Take care yourself.
Derek   ;)

Dan_Lehman

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Re: member status
« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2006, 09:58:50 PM »
The best rating system to have is one that rates posts, not posters.
Building some sort of bias (what else do you do on knowing a rating?) for
a person seems a poor endeavor.  Applauding particular remarks, as I said
before, signals readers to give attention to them (in the (humble) opinions
of the rating community)--and that seems a worthwhile rating (albeit, yes,
one that is also biased).

We can see the desired system at work, by coincidence:  Jeff Wyatt,
whom we all actually detest as a ruler of the Guild raising our dues
and the like  ;D  --okay, maybe not!--
has a "+4" rating; because this is shown with his post total at ONE,
we can see it as a rating of his particular remarks there.
And that has some worth.  Good comments could come from anyone,
and it would be a shame were they tarnished by some negative expectation
(or ignored).

"+2/-1" (=1, still single, not plural), over & out,

 ;)

Andre van der Salm

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Re: member status
« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2006, 11:22:47 PM »
Perhaps the best rating system at this very moment is NO rating system at all.

Good greef my fellow knot tyers....I started this thread more or less as a funny remark. Now I wish I'd never done so when looking back at all the messages ........

What I want to say is  I think this conversation is leading to nothing, it's upsetting people or even making them angry or irritated. So please let's quit with it and let's get back to knotting

take care
André

 

anything