Author Topic: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines  (Read 5643 times)

X1

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Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« on: July 21, 2013, 03:58:51 PM »
 This J knot seems to me a quite simple bend - would it be suitable for cords and ropes ?
 http://video.fishingclub.com/video/Knot-Wars-Lite-NAF-Show-12-2013;Knot-Wars
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 09:25:27 PM by X1 »

SS369

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2013, 04:48:54 PM »
Hard to say for sure, but to me it looks very similar to the Vice Versa bend.

SS

Edited screen capture to show the working ends.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:33:23 PM by SS369 »

X1

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2013, 05:10:16 PM »
   Noope !  :)   On the ViceVersa and the Reever knots, the Standing Part and the Tail do not follow the same route - when inside the knot s nub, they spread, the one going "left" and the other "right". The J knot looks like a two line stopper - the two lines follow the same path. It is a much easier knot to remember... See the attached pictures, from
http://daveroot.atspace.cc/knots/Knots_Bends.htm#ViceVersaBend
See also : http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1697.0
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 05:16:48 PM by X1 »

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 06:45:30 PM »
Absent seeing the video (not at broadband, currently),
is the colored image given above by SS369 the "J knot" ?

If so, it's less then clearly show vis-a-vis orientation
of the two ends (as is typical of much knot illustration,
alas), and of setting.  If this is an end-2-end knot,
then I can only muse that it has a curious split
*personality* on mechanics : i.e., that one SPart
makes gradual (if set accordingly for this) bends
into the nub, while the opposite one enters w/o
bending, but is given a frictional gripping by wraps!?

X1 shows knots I know; maybe he can add exploded
and loaded versions of the J knot for clear inspection.


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SS369

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 07:30:12 PM »
The black background-ed knot illustration is a screen capture.
But, watch the animation, you'll see what happens to the ends as you've pointed to.

SS

SS369

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 10:39:02 PM »
I believe that that the one line (leader) is sliding through the nub till the tail has shortened to what we see in the picture.
That's the only way I have been able to duplicate it.

IMO, this particular knot, given what I said about the tying is not suited to a rope bend. Unless one wants to retrace the one line with the other.

SS

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2013, 05:10:43 AM »
IMO, this particular knot, given what I said about the tying
is not suited to a rope bend.  Unless one wants to retrace the one line with the other.

And, typical of such traced knots, there is no indication
of orientation of the traced parts (commonly this is left
to chance or imagination for the fig.8 eye & end-2-end knots).


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X1

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2013, 05:44:49 AM »

And, typical of such traced knots, there is no indication of orientation of the traced parts (commonly this is left to chance or imagination for the fig.8 eye & end-2-end knots).
   Oh, no, that was my fault, because I used a small part of the screen, in order to show the knot in a greater scale. In SS picture, the Working ends are indicated. See Ryply #1, and (1). However, in this particular two-line stopper, the relative positions of the ends would not be of much importance , I believe... and, at any case, not of such importance as in the Fig.8 eyeknot(s).
1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4499.msg28657#msg28657

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Knot Wars, between bends tied on fishing lines
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2013, 06:33:45 PM »

And, typical of such traced knots, there is no indication of orientation of the traced parts (commonly this is left to chance or imagination for the fig.8 eye & end-2-end knots).
   Oh, no, that was my fault, because I used a small part of the screen,
 in order to show the knot in a greater scale. In SS picture, the Working ends are indicated.
See Ryply #1, and (1).
However, in this particular two-line stopper,
the relative positions of the ends would not be of much importance , I believe...
and, at any case, not of such importance as in the Fig.8 eyeknot(s).
1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4499.msg28657#msg28657
I remain skeptical : even if we have a clear indication
of ends in the image, there is (1) question as to whether
this image is accurate in presenting (a) what the author
intends, and (b) the best orientation (--is it even known?!),
and (2) the orientation of the twin parts in their passage
through the knot is often not so clear or seemingly
--if crossing, etc.-- desirable.  Angling knots are among
the worst, I surmise because they are manifest in such
small AND translucent material as to be hard to discern,
and in this fiddly material hard to dress-&-set "just so" !?

You might be right about how much this matters, here;
but it would be better to have some test data to bolster
this belief.  (Which data maybe would not be of this knot,
but of others with like bendings and from that some good
idea of how certain materials respond, to inform our
judgement.)


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anything