Author Topic: A baker s dozen of "overcomplicated" knots :) . ( A personal re+collection )  (Read 14358 times)

xarax

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...most secure and beautiful Helical loop, which is TIB and PET-2
 ...this Helical loop which is TIB and PET-2 !

   Here, simply, the alleged PET-2 attribute is falsely attributed: the one side has an overhand base, reeved through
discussed elsewhere.  And, I'm hardly drunk ...

   Congratulations, Dan Lehman - for choosing a better ophthalmologist than mine !
   I should either be persuaded to wear my glasses, or I should buy a better camera... ( Or the real cause of my blindness was the Saturday night alcohol - was I who was drunk ? Anyway, it is Sunday morning now, and I feel  - and "see" -, MUCH better !  :))
   This beautiful Helical Loop is topologically simpler than the Strangle-based one, but still it is not PET-2, because, although the single overhand knot is topologically simpler than the double one, of the Strangle, it is still not TIB - so the Helical loop based on it is obviously not PET-2.
   I have now posted two new pictures of it with one less turn - and one can easily imagine it with 0 (zero) turns, where the helical coils has been degenerated into a straight segment.
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4949.msg35169#msg35169
   It turns out that it is not so easy to tie a decent TIB and PET-2 Helical loop ...
   For a TIB and PET-2 helical loop, see the attached picture. For another, very similar overhand-knot based Helical loop, see : 
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3020.msg21806#msg21806
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 01:23:49 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

enhaut

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It turns out that it is not so easy to tie a decent TIB and PET-2 Helical loop - in that sense, the discovery of enhaut was sent by KnotGod Himself !

 :) :)
Should we mention that the reverse version is also TIB and PET-2 or not because this concept has no real value?

Ps
I have solved the puzzle you provided (it took more time that I expected) I am devising a tib method (reverse engineering is a must)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 03:45:15 PM by enhaut »

enhaut

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I was talking about this knot
Of course, I knew but I like them both now that I can add turns at lib :)
In fact with 3 turns I am not worry about deformation too much.

xarax

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   I had decided to replace ( in this collection which I whimsically call " my Patheon of "new" knots "  :) )  the Strangle-based Helical loop ( #8 ), with the left- or the right-handedness version of the Helical 8 TIB loop, shown in (1) and at the attached picture. When each link/part of the loop, tied on the Standing Part either before the eye or the after the eye, is topologically equivalent to the unknot, so it is an "open" knot, the loop can be untied more easily, even after heavy loading - and, if the loop is untied in-the-end by the release of the other link, it leaves no "relic" knot still tied on the Standing Part, which should also be untied in a second stage.
   ( I hope that Dan Lehman will use the same glasses - and he will not find the opportunity to notice again that any "alleged" attribute is "falsely attributed" ... :) )
   The Strangle-based Helical loop is dead - long live the Helical 8 loop !  :)

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=4949.msg35499#msg35499
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 04:58:48 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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   I would like to mention a few things about this collection, as it stands till now.
 
   1. I have not yet made my mind which of the three "new" knots, the Bull Clove hitch, the Bull Pretzel hitch, or the Doubly slipped overhand-knot-based hitch / Tom Foul s hitch, is the best (3). ( The fourth of the quartet, the Double Ring hitch, is an "old" knot, and its asymmetry is, for me, a bitter pill to swallow ). There are many things one should consider here :
   1. Some of those hitches can become more tight and more securely "locked" when they are pre-tensioned by the force of the arms of an average man, some when they are pre-tensioned by the body weight of an average man, and some when they are tensioned by a really heavy weight - and I do not know by which criterion I should select one of them, as the most tight one, to place it in my personal Pantheon.
   2. Some can be pre-tensioned easily, and remain tightly wrapped around the hitched/bound object(s), only when they are tied around a cylindrical pole, because, in their case, the interaction between the surface of the pole and the nub of the hitch is not only beneficial, but also required - and some others can be used as tight hitches around bundles of many objects, which may not be in contact with the nub of the hitch at all ( i.e., the nub of the hitch may be "free floating" in mid-air ).
   3. Last, but not least, the relative diameters of the rope and the pole do matter. Some hitches become more secure when their nubs are in contact with a more round surface of a small-size pole, and they are pulled by their limbs towards it, and some are secure even if/when their nubs are in contact with a more flattish object, and the pull by their limbs does not squeeze them at all. 
   I have to try all those things - but, for the moment, I try to recover from my back pains, so I can not do anything... 

   The other thing I would like to mention, is that I had decided to offer to the "tackled hitches"(1)(2) a place in this collection -  I believe they deserve it, but, in order to keep the total number to 12/13, I have to remove one other knot, and I have not made my mind about this yet. Which "tackled hitch" ? The Butterfly tackled hitch is the one candidate, and the most-tight Yoke hitch the other - but first I have to figure out if there is a way to tie the Yoke hitch in a way which will allow me to untie it, even with some difficulty - because a two-wrap tight hitch witch can only be used as a permanent knot is not very useful. If one would need a permanent tight hitch, he would better tie a multi-wrap one - and I have already included two of those in my collection, the TackleClamp hitch and the Double Cow hitch, which can be untied, even with some difficulty.

1.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5460.msg36939#msg36939
2.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5474.0   
3.   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5255.msg37249#msg37249
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 04:08:02 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.