Author Topic: Double clove hitch?  (Read 11840 times)

raphaelh

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Double clove hitch?
« on: February 18, 2015, 11:07:03 PM »
I've seen different variations of the clove hitch from the IGKT here: http://www.surreyknots.org.uk/images/15_Clove_Hitch_Variations.jpg

And I've been searching the net, but cannot find the name of the knot (picture attached). Could we call it a "double clove hitch"? What do you think?

SS369

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 11:56:42 PM »
Looks like a rolling/magnus hitch with an overhand tail tie.
Might be better with a bowline style tie.
Can't say that there is a per sea name.

SS

raphaelh

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 12:04:01 AM »

roo

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 12:55:24 AM »
I've seen different variations of the clove hitch from the IGKT here: http://www.surreyknots.org.uk/images/15_Clove_Hitch_Variations.jpg

And I've been searching the net, but cannot find the name of the knot (picture attached). Could we call it a "double clove hitch"? What do you think?
I assume you're excluding the knot in the tail.  You just have series of Clove hitches (or almost two in series), which turns up in decorative knotting, sometimes with the name of French Spiral Hitching or Grapevine Service (ABOK #3349) as seen at the bottom of the page here:

http://notableknotindex.webs.com/clovehitch.html

How are you using it?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 01:04:48 AM by roo »
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xarax

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 01:15:52 AM »
   In a sense, it is a double ( = 1 + 1 ) Clove hitch, indeed - where the diagonal riding turn of the one/"first" has been merged with the Tail End of the other/"second", so the resulting composite knot is a three- and not a four-wrap hitch ( as a "genuine" double Clove hitch would had been, if the two Clove hitches were placed the one next to the other ). However, the label "double" can also denote a Clove hitch with two riding turns, just like it happens in the case of the three forms of the double Constrictor (1) : the common one, the more symmetric ABoK#1253 one, and the one shown in the attached picture. ( By the way, I do not see why one would prefer to use the hitch you show, and not one of those three forms of the double Constrictor... ). Moreover, one could also use the same name for a multi-( in that case, four- ) wrap/coil Clove hitch ( with one riding turn, shown in the second attached picture ) - which can be a tight and secure hitch, if the ratio of the rope to pole diameters is not very small, and so the angle of the diagonal riding turn relatively to the axis of the knot becomes large enough (2).

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3174.msg19035#msg19035
2. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=3794.msg22282#msg22282
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raphaelh

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 10:14:49 AM »
I assume you're excluding the knot in the tail.

How are you using it?

You're right, I'm excluding the knot in the tail, it is a tie off to secure it.

This knot is being use in tree care, to tie a branch which is quite smooth, it grips more than a simple Clove Hitch.

raphaelh

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 10:24:39 AM »
I think this is in fact a clove hitch followed by a single hitch (ABOK #49), made with the loose end.

raphaelh

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 10:46:47 AM »
In a german book it is called "Dreifache Mastwurf", which would translate to "Triple-Clove Hitch", but I'm not sure this is a correct name.

xarax

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 03:23:58 PM »
   I do not see any Clove hitch "followed" by a single hitch : when elements of one, "first" knot influence the behaviour of elements of another, "second" knot placed next to it, we have a new, composite knot, which "works" in an "emergent", more complex way than any of its two initial constituents. Also, I do not see any "Triple-Clove hitch" - which I admit that, if it exists, it is something I can not even imagine .... Could you, please, be more precise about what you mean in your two previous posts ?
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raphaelh

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 04:00:29 PM »
I'm sorry, as I don't master technical knot language in english :)

I was trying to say that a clove hitch is composed of 2 single hitches, and this new knot is composed of 3 single hitches. Of course the composite know depends on how you arrange the single hitches, but can't this new knot be seen as an specific arrangement of 3 single hitches?

What would be a good name for it?

xarax

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 07:04:06 PM »
... a clove hitch is composed of 2 single hitches, and this new knot is composed of 3 single hitches.

   OK, now I understand what you mean. I guess you can see it that way, indeed - but, in that case, it is a "triple single hitch" ( composed of three half-hitches ), not a "triple Clove hitch".   
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 08:07:07 PM by xarax »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Double clove hitch?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2015, 07:05:06 PM »
   In a sense, it is a double ( = 1 + 1 ) Clove hitch, indeed ... .
However, the label "double" can also denote ... .

Yes, "double" is trouble --one of many troubles with
knots nomenclature.  The rolling hitch can be seen as
a *double*d clove h. in the spirit of double bowline, and
so on.

Firstly, I do not like how you are loading this knot : with a
pull lengthwise on an object, you deliver the SPart's force
into the farthest reach, which turns over itself and allows
some pressure of the SPart to bear against later wraps of
the knot around the object; it should be far surer to reverse
this loading!  (Initially, I saw the finishing knot as a bowline
on my cursory glance --"surely that is done", I thought, seeing
by bias/presumption and not eye!)

Maybe the best name for this is is "a clove & a half".

I will remark, re loading, that I've seen in the wild the simple
(un"doubled") clove hitch used for cord running through
netting and anchoring that to a headrope, with orientations
of both sorts (not in same net, though, IIRC) --i.e., where the
SPart leads to away end, or to near end; the former in this case
makes for a tighter, more compact knot, which I'm sure will
adequately grip and stay put  (though it is in the opposite
orientation that one has paired/reflected "nipping loops").


--dl*
====

 

anything