Author Topic: Transfigured ABoK#1056, as an end-of-line loop  (Read 8692 times)

xarax

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Re: Transfigured ABoK#1056, as an end-of-line loop
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2015, 04:49:17 AM »
   I am afraid that I am not concerned about your needs - and I have to admit that this concept has also no value to egg boiling or coffee making, which are my needs  :) ! However, it does have value for knot tying, and "knots" - you know, those odd things which are useful to ropes, but have nothing to do with chicken or coffee beans...  :) :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 09:42:46 AM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

xarax

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Re: Transfigured ABoK#1056, as an end-of-line loop
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2015, 09:52:33 AM »
   An interesting and nice midline and TIB bowline, which can be loaded when its ends are either parallel / aligned or perpendicular to its eyeleg without been transfigured, is the Linfit loop, tied by O. Nuttall ( Knotting Matters 17 ) - shown at the attached picture (1).
   Notice that the great knot tyer O. Nuttall says : " This knot Wont jam " - and my theory is that this is perhaps due to the fact that it is PET -2 ( the similar Butterfly loop is not, and that is why it may become difficult to untie after heavy and/or unfavourable loading ).

1.http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5166.msg33873#msg33873
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 02:37:13 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

Tex

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Re: Transfigured ABoK#1056, as an end-of-line loop
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2015, 04:21:30 PM »
**IF** this knot really is unstable when loaded with three legs then while it might be a good "in-line" loop, it is a bad midline loop.  In the middle of real lines, things can happen.  As theoretical "in-line" loops, well I just don't care.    Who wants an inline loop?  I want a loop that I can tie midline that can handle the real world.  Now if none existed then ok, we'd be stuck talking about inline loops I guess (but we'd still call them mid-line and just wish they were better). But good ones do exist.

I'm with alpineer here.  This concept has no practical value, either for practical knots or for practical improvement in communication about impractical knots or knotting concepts where it will cause more confusion than it clears up.  It's only value is as a tool for xarax to refuse to understand a point unless you submit to his personal language. 

xarax

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Re: Transfigured ABoK#1056, as an end-of-line loop
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2015, 03:24:50 PM »
   I have found a picture of the transfigured Farmer s loop, at :
   http://en.scoutwiki.org/Farmer's_loop
   It looks like one of the two loops shown at Reply#1 - in fact, like the worse one of them !
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5347.msg35556#msg35556
   Whoever does not "see" the HUGE difference, in form, structure, and quality, of this unstable loop from the Plait loop, should better consider kniitting rather than knootting !  :)  :)  :)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 03:25:49 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.

alpineer

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Re: Transfigured ABoK#1056, as an end-of-line loop
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2015, 07:28:40 PM »
   I have found a picture of the transfigured Farmer s loop, at :
   http://en.scoutwiki.org/Farmer's_loop
   It looks like one of the two loops shown at Reply#1 - in fact, like the worse one of them !
   http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5347.msg35556#msg35556
   Whoever does not "see" the HUGE difference, in form, structure, and quality, of this unstable loop from the Plait loop, should better consider kniitting rather than knootting !  :)  :)  :)

Your too much, xarax, offering such weak arguments - showing an unloaded form of the F. Loop - something you can do with any knot. A Farmer's Loop - dressed and tightened in it's most commonly accepted shape/ form and subjected to any loading profile - will not distort into any shape/form that would be considered appreciably different from the original. Your beloved plait form cannot, and more specifically, I very much doubt that it will outperform the original Farmer's Loop under the loading profiles you have intended for it. Such a case would render it as just an inferior form of the proper Farmer's Loop, IMO. So, once again, probably better used in it's ABoK #1054 Farmer's Loop form.

xarax

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Re: Transfigured ABoK#1056, as an end-of-line loop
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2015, 03:12:14 AM »
  showing an unloaded form of the F. Loop

  I see... You had never tied or loaded the two knots I had shown !  :) (1). Good for you ! Keep believing, it may help you ...

   A Farmer's Loop - dressed and tightened in it's most commonly accepted shape/ form and subjected to any loading profile - will not distort into any shape/form that would be considered appreciably different from the original. Your beloved plait form cannot, and more specifically, I very much doubt that it will outperform the original Farmer's Loop under the loading profiles you have intended for it. Such a case would render it as just an inferior form of the proper Farmer's Loop, IMO. 

  "In its most commonly accepted shape..."(sic)  How much are you trying to be "accepted(sic)" !  :) Only beware of the second part of the equation, the "commonly(sic)"  :) :)  :)
   I do not have similar needs, I am afraid. I had tied and tried the ugly tangly end-of-line Farmer s loop, and I know that it can settle in MORE that TWO forms, which are ALL unstable AND ugly, and depend on the proportion of the tensile forces applied on the four limbs, and the angles between those limbs. I have shown pictures of two such forms, OBVIOUSLY loaded - but, evidently, you prefer to keep your mind s eyes wide shut... You had never understood what is the difference between an in-line loop and an end-of-line loop, so why do you expect to understand anything beyond this elementary thing ? Now, WHY does this happen, and you have not understood ANYTHING about this matter ? Not because you can not, of course, but because you do not want to, and because you do not wish to - and you do not wish to understand, simply because you do not care, as you had declared time and again. If you just want to use knots only as means to your ends, and tie only the knots that will help you go climbing, you should expect that you may suffer some collateral damage... :)

   If you can not appreciate how different those forms are, it is not my fault !
   However, the problem is not that you can not appreciate the differences of those forms! The problem is that you can not even SEE those differences !  :)
   Just LOOK at those two loops, the structured Plait loop, made of two interlinked crossing knots, and this amorphous entangled octopus, the Farmer s loop, made of... you know what ! Actually, I am sure that you can see what the dis-figured, deformed end-of-line Farmer s loop looks like...  :)  No ? Then, you need to visit a farmer s ranch:)  :)

1. http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5347.msg35556#msg35556
 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 06:31:21 PM by xarax »
This is not a knot.