Author Topic: Reef knot as bend  (Read 1868 times)

KnotMe

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Reef knot as bend
« on: December 12, 2019, 08:25:36 PM »
I have an application where I am bending a closed loop with a cord with a free end.  What I usually do is larks head/cow hitch the loop and thread the other cord through then fold it into a tight bight and pull the sides of the larks head to either side.  As a general rule this works quite well if a touch fussy in the setup since I'm working with threads, but when I want to release the loop I just pull the free end straight and everything comes apart.  Only when looking for a official name for this, do I realize that it is a reef knot, the first bend on Ashley's list.  While I realize that if anyone was going to tell me if there was an alternate name for the reef knot as bend, it would be Ashley, I still thought I would ask if anyone knew of alternate names floating around.

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Reef knot as bend
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2019, 01:23:15 AM »
alternate names floating around.
The main alternative name is "square", to which
I play my word-fuse game sometimes for 'squaREef',
and alternatiing between these alternatives by whim.

But one might challenge your assertion that what you
use is this (by any name) : you have a knot of two
pieces (1-2, & A-B) in which 1 opposes A-B with 2 unloaded
--what I'm coming to see as a "bight hitch" (A-B being
the fully loaded bight hitched to by piece 1-2).
(Just as a becket hitch resembles a bowline,
each w/3 of 4 ends of like tangle loaded but different ends.)

 ;)

KnotMe

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Re: Reef knot as bend
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 02:32:29 AM »
I'm having problems visualizing your 1-2 & A-B.  Think you could annotate my images?




Dan_Lehman

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Re: Reef knot as bend
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2019, 12:11:56 AM »
I'm having problems visualizing your 1-2 & A-B.  Think you could annotate my images?
Carol, it's just a quick shorthand IDing of
parts of a *knot* : in the case of basic
eye knots & end2end joints, there are
--as seen in the knotted/tangled part---
two parts connecting the four ends,
and these I'll arbitrarily ID as 1-2 & A-B.
(If one starts at end "1" one will exit the
tangle at end "2", and so on.)


An end2end joint loads --to adopt a canonical form--
the 1-2 piece's end-1 vs. A-B piece's A, the other
two ends being unloaded.  Whereas in an eye knot
it would be 1 vs. 2+A, B the tail.
But in your structure we have 1 vs. A+B, 2 the tail
--of the piece run through the larkshead.
(And in one of your images of the tied structure
in colored cord you can see ONE (unloaded, we
presume) tail.)


--dl*
====
« Last Edit: December 18, 2019, 02:34:44 AM by Dan_Lehman »

KnotMe

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Re: Reef knot as bend
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2019, 01:09:25 AM »
I think I understand.  Even though the structure is effectively the same, because the loading is different it should be considered a different knot/bend?

KC

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Re: Reef knot as bend
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 10:21:47 PM »
Yes like power run thru same circuit differently,
Tho here to that imagery, see that as if we lose ground connection from off host mount to make difference.
.
Reef Knot as name; has taste of salt air righteously of rich heritage.
Is made to hold strong and release by taking out of 'Square' by pulling either end .
So is as has slip functionality built in, cuz is so minimal form on precipice of fail.
Errant forms of Thief, Granny, Grief can pull their own selves out of Square to destabilize and fault minimal structure to fail in normal, designed for , binding usage.
.
Also known as Hercules Knot (wedding knot) for proposed strength and reliability (probably in more frictive hemp)
>>but not as bend  please, for this trys to hold the major force on long legs with lesser  nip after arc on tails.
As ABoK #75 states: "But employed as a bend (to tie two rope ends together), the REEF KNOT is probably responsible for more deaths and injuries than have been caused by the failure of all other knots combined."
#2552 speaks of capsize to reversed halfs
.
To my force views tho, I must call this Square as constant reminder from minimalist form/lesson for all knots best if properly squared to forces and devices.
Square Knot , as any other is best major force locked by major force side before or in first arc as emphasized in Constrictor and Sailor
>>but is required especially in this minimal form of less parts (minimal parts giving great lessons of necessities with less confusions)
Square is a binding knot to invoke major leg forces to nip against host where each leg initially crosses other on this 'higher voltage' side before arc reduces forces. This function is lost as bend.
>>in Fact Square as a Binder has the lock of the Square as Bend as secondary/keeper/stabilizer of the primary lock
>>Square as Bend loses the primary lock mechanism against host and then depends only on the lesser/secondary locking..
Also as binding knot both ends must match to give neither advantage in the balance then lost to now be lesser side in mirror
>>maintain balance, as 2 strong as possible checks to line form.
.
Binding knot force path different than any other, as radial inwards locked force to hold, locking crossings must be on round host to capitalise on sine/cosine trade off and convex pressures to secure.  Flat is neutral, concave is loss, we want convex serving of rope out into forces constantly , specifically on locking crossing parts.
A bend is a continuous leg to leg linear force path, hitch terminates linear force on host, neither are stand alones like knot, that itself too would look to linear usage.  Binding knots non linear empowering force different than rest.
.
Square is simply as 2passive hooks slipped together / maybe baby, no real hard lock
>>unless as binding to nip as specified against host, then can employ most force to secure rather than lesser trusted to hold greater of bend
>>better too, if host is bag etc. crushed close and trying to be as loaded spring expressing assertively to spring back open, rather than log just standing ground as passive responder.
.
Square to me is most basic lessons and start to other mechanically logical upgrades.
Sheet Bend resolves soft lock of Square as a bend; by maintaining 1 leg as passive host  mount and curves lock leg into main force path properly to secure major force with major force more properly.
>> But if unmatched lines; lock leg must be the smaller/tighter to mechanically denser this advantaged force form to lock 1 or even perhaps several passive hooks as 1host mount by said lock.
>>What Knot would try to match to double lock but can drift to unlock position unless seize at least 1 leg or in flat profile webbing  that prevents drift etc.
Surgeon gives some resolve but with linear arc along higher voltage primary rather than arc radial around to lock
with primary voltage as Sheet by this model.
.
(sorry, fave topic chain!)
.
edit:found this old pic, i look at 2 halfs as lock and keeper like hitch pin and cotter key,
so here call the lesser nip side like cotter key the keeper, not the bull/hitch pin
>>hair pin cotter key just not meant to take primary loading in this imagery.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 12:48:29 AM by KC »
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon[/color]
East meets West: again and again, cos:sine is the value pair of yin/yang dimensions
>>of benchmark aspect and it's non(e), defining total sum of the whole.
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples

KnotMe

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Re: Reef knot as bend
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2019, 12:25:07 AM »
Thanks so much for the detailed explanation!

Here's one of the inspirations for what I'm doing, but using a different combination of knots, obviously
http://kutebraider.blogspot.com/2017/08/foot-thread.html