Author Topic: New ways of Tying Old Knots - updated (as learn Inkscape)  (Read 4823 times)

GrandpaBig

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New ways of Tying Old Knots - updated (as learn Inkscape)
« on: January 03, 2021, 05:21:25 AM »
Hi,

I am a noob to this forum, but not to knot tying.  Under "Chat"  I talked a lot about ABoK-1038:1039.  One of my interests is  tying existing knots in new ways.  Also learning to use
Inkscape to generate images.   I read somewhere that PNG images are often preferred
for this type of posting?

I like ABoK-1039 much better than 1038.  So I have attached some different ways of
tying 1039.   I 'think' these could be modified to create 1038.

I am also "experimenting" with tying left-handed by "flipping over" and tying right-handed.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 12:05:08 AM by GrandpaBig »

agent_smith

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Re: New ways of Tying Knots - ABoK-1038 as example
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2021, 07:37:31 AM »
In reply to GrandpaBig:
Quote
Seems a lot of my interest is new ways of tying knots.
What exactly do you mean by "new" ways of tying knots?

There are many very experienced knot tyers who post in this forum... most of whom are creative thinkers.
Do you mean discovery of 'new' (ie original creations that have never before been published) knots?
Or do you mean variations of existing (ie already known and published) knots?
Would be good to get some clarification on this please...

Quote
Since I am right-handed my slip knot is right-handed as well.
There appears to be something 'odd' with your computer generated images.
In the 'flipping' maneuver to progress from image #1 to image #2 - I am unclear what you mean by the term 'flip'?

When you say 'flip' - do you simply mean to turn it over?
If merely turning it over to see the opposite side - this does not alter its chirality.

Your image #1 has different chirality to image #2.

Image #1 has left-hand (S) chirality.

Image #2 has right-hand (Z) chirality.

Mere turning the knot over (flipping?) does not alter the chirality.
Analogy is a left shoe. You cannot alter the chirality of a left shoe by flipping it over or rotating it (it is always a left shoe).
NOTE: If you hold a left shoe adjacent to plane mirror - you will see a reflected image that is a 'right' shoe.

GrandpaBig

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Re: New ways of Tying Knots - ABoK-1038 as example
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2021, 11:22:34 PM »
In reply to GrandpaBig:
Quote
Seems a lot of my interest is new ways of tying knots.
What exactly do you mean by "new" ways of tying knots?

I mean new ways of tying knots that already exist.  Since "new knots" are not
being "invented" that often.  This helps me stay interested in knots.

GrandpaBig

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Re: New ways of Tying Knots - ABoK-1038 as example
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2021, 11:30:32 PM »
In reply to GrandpaBig:
There appears to be something 'odd' with your computer generated images.
In the 'flipping' maneuver to progress from image #1 to image #2 - I am unclear what you mean by the term 'flip'?

I am "learning" to use Inkscape to "tye" knots.  Yes by 'flip' I meant to turn over.  By flipping over
I can maintain my 'right handed tendency' vs tying 'left-handed'   In the 3rd diagram I add the
next overhand knot.  The idea also was to not pull one knot through the other.

agent_smith

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Re: New ways of Tying Old Knots - updated (as learn Inkscape)
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2021, 06:36:15 AM »
Hello GrandpaBig,

Just giving you some technical feedback in good faith...
Hopefully you will accept my feedback in good faith :)

With respect to your first computer generated image sequence (the 'slipLoop' image sequence):
To progress from image 1 to image 2, you have stated that you 'flip' (ie turn-over) the knot.
If this is what you mean - I'm informing you that your 2nd image is incorrect (it is an impossibility).
Flipping/turning over a knot does not alter its 'chirality'.

Now... I'm not 100% sure if you understand the concept of chirality?
Think of a left shoe.
If you flip/turn-over a left shoe, it remains a 'left' shoe - it does not magically transform into a 'right' shoe.
(NOTE: If you hold a 'left' shoe adjacent to a plane mirror - you will see a mirror reflection which is a 'right' shoe (ie the reflected image is a mirror inversion).

In your image sequence ('slipLoop') - you have changed the chirality in progressing from step 1, to step 2.

I am not trying to trip you up or be nasty... I'm simply pointing out a technicality.

I am hoping that if you carefully examine your 'SlipLoop' image sequence, you will see that you can't arrive at the 2nd step by flipping/turning the knot over...

Hope this makes sense?