Author Topic: Does anybody know this bend?  (Read 4995 times)

Florian F

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Does anybody know this bend?
« on: May 09, 2021, 12:20:09 AM »
Hi,

I discovered a bend that looks neat and has nice properties.  I'd like to know if you have seen it before.

It is pretty simple, so I expected it to be described somewhere.  But I haven't found any reference to it.

It is related to the Zeppelin bend, Hunter's bend, Ashley bend and the Butterfy bend.  But it is none of them.

It is not on the Wikipedia list of bends.
https://www.animatedknots.com/complete-knot-list

It is not on the Animated Knots page
https://www.animatedknots.com/complete-knot-list

I looked at Siriuso's "bends flow chart" but it seems to be missing there also.

So it looks like I discovered something new.  Or it was known and forgotten.  Maybe there is no use for the knot that isn't better served by another well-known knot.  I don't know.  Anyway, I think this knot has some merits and deserves to be better known.

So my post has a threefold motivation.  1. identify the knot, 2. present the knot so that it gets better known and 3. claim the discovery if no prior reference to it can be found.  Until somebody comes up with an official name, I will call it "Florian's bend".

Here is a picture of the knot.  It looks like a Butterfly or an Ashley bend, but it is different.



Here is how to tie it.  I am not sure about the technical terms.  You take two parallel strands, bend them backwards, cross the running ends over the standing ends, switch the bottom crossing so that the running end goes under the standing end, then pass the two running ends thru the loop.  Tighten it.  Then, pull the two standing ends apart.



My knot works and behaves pretty much like the Zeppelin bend, it is just the running ends that point in the same direction.

Pros:
- It is self-tightening under load.  It doesn't slide.
- It doesn't jam or lock even after being subjected to high load.
- It can always be untied with bare fingers.
- It is quite easy to tie.

Cons:
- Needs to be totally free of load to be tied.
- (PS, thanks to agent_smith): This knot has poor security properties and can roll apart under certain loads in certain conditions.  It can give a false sense of security.  Avoid it where security matters.

And I want to add that it can be slipped, resulting in a quite pretty knot, without reducing its strength.



So your comments are welcome.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 08:29:09 PM by Florian F »

agent_smith

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Re: Does anybody know this bend?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2021, 01:24:33 AM »
Hello Florian F.

Thanks for your presentation.

Please have a look at the following link: https://notableknotindex.webs.com/butterflybend.html ('evil imposter').

Also have a look at Ashley Book of Knots - at illustration #1408/#1409
Note that a 'roos' web site, he illustrates the knot in Z/Z chirality.
It can also be tied in S/S chirality.
Ashley also illustrates in Z/Z chirality...

Note that this particular 'bend' isn't 'TIB'.

...

If you making a claim of originality - you should post in the New knot Investigations section.
However, I am not 100% clear if you had intended that your post was a claim of originality?



Florian F

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Re: Does anybody know this bend?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2021, 09:09:11 AM »
Hello, thanks for the answer.

I made the claim of originality just in case.  I actually doubted nobody came up with the knot before.

I was more curious to know why this knot seemed to be absent from all knot catalogues.

So in summary, it is not necessarily a bad knot, except that it is less secure than other similar knots.  It can give a false sense of security.  Other alternatives (butterfly bend) should be preferred where security matters.

siriuso

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Re: Does anybody know this bend?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2021, 07:05:00 PM »
Hi Florian F,

You may find in my folder "My Other Tying Methods of Some Known Bends" at OT#1408.9Bend(1) and (2)op.pdf files, where the Tying Method 3 (Pecking Duck) and 4 (Parallel Twist) are the same as yours. It is a Bend ABOK#1408 and 1409.

This Bend is also tabulated twice in the "Bends Flow Chart" as well.

Happy Knotting
yChan
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 08:06:10 PM by siriuso »

Florian F

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Re: Does anybody know this bend?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2021, 10:13:23 PM »
Hi,

Thanks.  Now that I know the ABOK number (#1408) I found it in your Bends Chart 03.  The arrows don't go the way I imagined they had to go.  But I tried it and it works.

Florian F.