Author Topic: A useful set of knot? how to select among alternatives?  (Read 3426 times)

mitemb

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A useful set of knot? how to select among alternatives?
« on: June 24, 2021, 03:54:34 PM »
Dear all,

a new person on this forum, so please be gentle :)

I only recently started really getting invested in the subject of knots but I guess one can say that I am pretty much hooked (or should this be 'tied'?). I will get myself an ABOK soon but have so far perused lots of online resources on knots like [1][2][3] and others. While I looked at lots of knots, for the learning I tried to follow the paradigm to learn a few knots well rather than all of them badly, but in the end I find that my selection is obviously arbitrary and one seems to come across lots of different suggestions for knots to be used for a particular purpose depending on which resource one turns to.
I have my set of go-to knots but then I always wonder if I should switch to something different for the same purpose.

To give you examples:

end of line self-tightening loops: often I just use a slip knots. Then reading further the Buntline hitch seems to be advertised a lot, but there are also things like the poacher's or scaffolding knot that seem to be well regarded. The only real difference I found is that the buntline hitch will "collapse" into an overhand knot while the others will just pull open. In the end it seems to be just the question whether to tie an overhand knot, fishman's or clove hitch around the standing end. But how to decide what is best?

end-of-line adjustable loops: I found that my favorite here for the moment is the midshipman's hitch which I like very much because it can be tied under load. Then there are things like Blake's hitch which seems to be described as better sometimes, so should I be using this apart from when I really need to tie the knot under load?

fixed end-of-line loops: I use the bowline quite regularly but it has its known limitations, so I am always looking for alternatives. The figure 8 loop is obviously very popular, but especially the rethreading method I find very cumbersome and lengthy so that I tend to avoid it. If I can tie it on(with?) a bight, it is a good alternative. A loop that tends to get very good reviews for joining ropes is the Zeppelin bend, so I actually adopted that mostly for this purpose. There is a Zeppelin loop that is also a bit tricky to tie reliably, but otherwise maybe that could be a good go-to loop?

My other go-tos are: constrictor (potentially slipped) to tie around poles or similar (another example: should I switch to round turn + 2HH and keep the constrictor for whippings etc??), alpine butterfly or directional figure 8 for mid-line loops, trucker's hitch,...

I am aware that my question very likely does not have just a single and/or simple answers, but if you have any thoughts on the above, I'd be happy to hear them :)



[1] https://www.animatedknots.com/
[2] https://www.netknots.com/
[3] https://www.101knots.com/

roo

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Re: A useful set of knot? how to select among alternatives?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2021, 06:27:43 PM »
Dear all,

a new person on this forum, so please be gentle :)

I only recently started really getting invested in the subject of knots but I guess one can say that I am pretty much hooked (or should this be 'tied'?). I will get myself an ABOK soon but have so far perused lots of online resources on knots like [1][2][3] and others. While I looked at lots of knots, for the learning I tried to follow the paradigm to learn a few knots well rather than all of them badly, but in the end I find that my selection is obviously arbitrary and one seems to come across lots of different suggestions for knots to be used for a particular purpose depending on which resource one turns to.
I have my set of go-to knots but then I always wonder if I should switch to something different for the same purpose.

To give you examples:

end of line self-tightening loops: often I just use a slip knots. Then reading further the Buntline hitch seems to be advertised a lot, but there are also things like the poacher's or scaffolding knot that seem to be well regarded. The only real difference I found is that the buntline hitch will "collapse" into an overhand knot while the others will just pull open. In the end it seems to be just the question whether to tie an overhand knot, fishman's or clove hitch around the standing end. But how to decide what is best?

end-of-line adjustable loops: I found that my favorite here for the moment is the midshipman's hitch which I like very much because it can be tied under load. Then there are things like Blake's hitch which seems to be described as better sometimes, so should I be using this apart from when I really need to tie the knot under load?

fixed end-of-line loops: I use the bowline quite regularly but it has its known limitations, so I am always looking for alternatives. The figure 8 loop is obviously very popular, but especially the rethreading method I find very cumbersome and lengthy so that I tend to avoid it. If I can tie it on(with?) a bight, it is a good alternative. A loop that tends to get very good reviews for joining ropes is the Zeppelin bend, so I actually adopted that mostly for this purpose. There is a Zeppelin loop that is also a bit tricky to tie reliably, but otherwise maybe that could be a good go-to loop?

My other go-tos are: constrictor (potentially slipped) to tie around poles or similar (another example: should I switch to round turn + 2HH and keep the constrictor for whippings etc??), alpine butterfly or directional figure 8 for mid-line loops, trucker's hitch,...

I am aware that my question very likely does not have just a single and/or simple answers, but if you have any thoughts on the above, I'd be happy to hear them :)



[1] https://www.animatedknots.com/
[2] https://www.netknots.com/
[3] https://www.101knots.com/

Without knowing the requirements of your particular applications, it's difficult to make suggestions.  If you're looking for similar classes of knots for the sake of exploration, I can make some suggestions.

In place of a buntline hitch, you could try a Gnat Hitch:
https://knots.neocities.org/gnathitch.html

For an adjustable loop, the HFP Slippery 8 is very useful:
https://knots.neocities.org/slippery8.html

For something a little easier than a Zeppelin Loop for a beginner, the Water Bowline should be easy for someone familiar with a bowline:
https://knots.neocities.org/waterbowline.html

Another directional midline loop to keep in your knotting toolkit is the Span Loop:
https://knots.neocities.org/spanloop.html

Enjoy.
If you wish to add a troll to your ignore list, click "Profile" then "Buddies/Ignore List".

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Dan_Lehman

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Re: A useful set of knot? how to select among alternatives?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2021, 09:06:13 PM »
end of line self-tightening loops: often I just use a slip knots.

 Then reading further the Buntline hitch seems to be advertised a lot, but there are also things like the poacher's or scaffolding knot that seem to be well regarded. The only real difference I found is that the buntline hitch will "collapse" into an overhand knot while the others will just pull open. In the end it seems to be just the question whether to tie an overhand knot, fishman's or clove hitch around the standing end. But how to decide what is best?
I presume that you mean, in "will 'collapse'", that if one removes
the noose from the object --not always possible-- in some
structures the knot can be pushed off of the line into ... nothing.
Which is best?  Some cannot be tied under tension --that might
matter.  Some are more easily loosened --or TOO easily loosened--,
and this might matter.  Rope and other material comes in a variety
of natures, more or less accepting of various knots in them.


Quote
end-of-line adjustable loops: I found that my favorite here for the moment is the midshipman's hitch which I like very much because it can be tied under load. Then there are things like Blake's hitch which seems to be described as better sometimes, so should I be using this apart from when I really need to tie the knot under load?
Not only "tied under load", but largely holding whatever
tightness one has taken; whereas a coil-away knot like
the ProhGrip (Blake's) will yield some material in its
tightening --i.e., it needs to eexxxxxttteennnddd some in
order to build grip.
What knot does the work you want done?
(One gets no extra *points* for using special
knots of some fancy!)

Quote
fixed end-of-line loops: I use the bowline quite regularly but it has its known limitations, so I am always looking for alternatives. The figure 8 loop is obviously very popular, but especially the rethreading method I find very cumbersome and lengthy so that I tend to avoid it. If I can tie it on(with?) a bight, it is a good alternative. A loop that tends to get very good reviews for joining ropes is the Zeppelin bend, so I actually adopted that mostly for this purpose. There is a Zeppelin loop that is also a bit tricky to tie reliably, but otherwise maybe that could be a good go-to loop?
The BWL has also many ways to redress some of its
shortcomings --principally, the matter of its loosening
when slack, in smooth-firm cordage.  "Lee's Locked BWL"
is a good one, esp. taking the locking wrap across
the SPart to its locking/final tuck!

As for the "zeppelin" ("Thrun's knot"), it gets flowery reviews
but likely far less usage.

Quote
My other go-tos are: constrictor (potentially slipped) to tie around poles or similar (another example: should I switch to round turn + 2HH and keep the constrictor for whippings etc??), alpine butterfly or directional figure 8 for mid-line loops, trucker's hitch,...
The Gleipnir knot might do better around things
against which one cannot count on the cordage making
good contact.  And extended strangle knots are better
for whipping, but constrictor-like binding with tails for
some other whipping methods are nice, too.  Here, again,
different materials play nicer/less-nice with various knots.

Cheers,
--dl*
====

[1] https://www.animatedknots.com/
[2] https://www.netknots.com/
[3] https://www.101knots.com/
[/quote]

Andreas

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Re: A useful set of knot? how to select among alternatives?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2021, 11:19:58 PM »
Dan:
"Lee's Locked BWL is a good one, esp. taking the locking wrap across
the SPart to its locking/final tuck!"

Which knot is meant please, someone can link to a reference? The search function was unhelpful  ;)

Kost_Greg

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Re: A useful set of knot? how to select among alternatives?
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2021, 12:19:21 AM »
@Andreas

Straight from the original source.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsay6C91cqc

There is also a reference of Mr. Lee's knot in the bowline analysis paper by Mr.Gommers (agent_smith) on page 61.

Direct link to page: http://www.paci.com.au/knots.php

Enjoy!!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2021, 12:29:49 AM by tsik_lestat »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: A useful set of knot? how to select among alternatives?
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2021, 11:35:10 PM »
The search function was unhelpful  ;)
But tsik_lestat IS!   :D

Quote
"Lee's Locked BWL is a good one, esp. taking the locking wrap across
the SPart
to its locking/final tuck!"

Which knot is meant please, someone can link to a reference?
And in the afore-cited video, what I mean is describable
in reference to the nicely color-coded white & yellow
knot :: have that yellow'd tail cross the SPart and then
tuck out --which puts it, per image around the 2min mark
in the video, on the right side not the left as shown; and so
it will bear against and help nip/contain the SPart's loosening.
(And it will be an easier "wide swing" to make with rope
of such resistance to bending as Lee's dark blue rope shown;
when the Yosemite tight, 1dia wrapping of the tail meets
with resistance (give up, with old BW II or PMI pit rope!).
--noting, though, that the final tuck puts 2dia here,
another plus for this finish.)

Thanks,
--dl*
====