Author Topic: HFP8 / Slippery8 / T.A.L.K. proving self over time as rest have done  (Read 2694 times)

KC

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i have read, played with , put away, just to bring back out Dave Poston's lil'jewel that i think should and will get more notoriety over time as proven more.
notableknotindex
netknots
Being a newer knot in the millenniums of knot history i have not played with it in heavy loads and rigorous conditions of my past; but on a utility basis of more common day to day items it has truly been a winner for me, and of very simple architecture, that adds adjustability to a common inline terminal fixed eye of a Bowline.
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HFP8 named by Dave Poston in his father's honor/initials that introduced him to knots -notableknotindex
Slippery8 for familiar framework and function.
T.A.L.K. for Totally Adjustable Loop Knot
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Most fig8 bases i find to be loaded linearly, down the length of the fig8 construction.
Here is the HFP8 the loading seems more distinctly across this framework not linearly thru it, even tho may tie it so, for the 'adjustable mode'(notableknotindex term).



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Due to the unique adjustable feature, i don't recommend on spread eye due to moving towards unlocked/slide position unless stop/lock separate against he potential run.

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And to a certain extent, i see linear pull to same fixed terminal inline eye utility with a nipping loop-capstan-nipping loop securing of the 'seam';
as like a Bowline:

The nipping loop functions are separately applied here in HFP8; but a mono construction of both nips (pre and post capstan effect) shared in 1 loop.
Then capstan arc friction effect for reduction between the nipping loop functions in an HFP8 is the crossing of the fig8 layers, but is the SPart in the Bowline.
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In both cases tho, we have the most loaded and rigid parts of the lacing to be the SPart and 90degree turn, that flows into the (primary)nipping loop to the capstan effect and back thru for another final nipping loop function, securing well after the previous reductions in tension forces as feeds towards Bitter End of no force. 
The path of securing the seam to Bitter End is same until each hits 90degree 'hook', where HFP8 comes around to capstan effect on that 'shelf' at lower end of hook, but Bowline raises up on hook to SPart/neck instead.  The equal pulls of the eye balance across the fig8 framework, pulling evenly from either side to keep the 90 degree (from SPart) shelf hang even across, the then present layered capstan crossing.
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Lots of 'new'/thought new knots come thru here over time, very few with this clean simplicity and finesse; especially of the real new  fixed terminal eye utility class.  This doesn't have the historical heritage proving ground for confidence as standardly known knots, but certainly not to be forgotten, as   lean and clean simple and positive service!  And perhaps easier to remember to tie for some (if already fig8 friendly)than standards like Bowline for this utility of fixed terminal inline eye.
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Maybe normal people will not find this close enough beyond utility/position to compare to a Bowline, but basic concepts are there to my eye, just not the same positions of their deployment.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 01:34:28 AM by KC »
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon[/color]
East meets West: again and again, cos:sine is the value pair of yin/yang dimensions
>>of benchmark aspect and it's non(e), defining total sum of the whole.
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples

Dan_Lehman

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Re: HFP8 / Slippery8 / T.A.L.K. proving self over time as rest have done
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2021, 12:56:39 AM »
And to this, what I call the "Quick8" is the Poston
structure with the returning eye leg reversed --i.e.,
entering just as for a normal Fig.8 beside the outgoing
eye leg, and then that simple tuck as shown by the
SPart.
THIS holds.
Take the tail now for one further tuck down & out between the eye legs,
and one can have some slack-security pressure upon the SPart.
THIS was tested --to rupture, little sign of slippage--
in 5/16" 12-strand coated HMPE.

(-;

KC

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Re: HFP8 / Slippery8 / T.A.L.K. proving self over time as rest have done
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2021, 10:18:25 AM »
Nice.
More of an inline 8 rather than the cross-lateral seems?
More like Bowline dbl.nipping both thru same loop?
Would still not see SPart is the capstan in middle so much;
>>but rather the fig8 structure that a slip(bight)
>>rather than 'dogged' by single leg
>>would give more capstan roundness?
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon[/color]
East meets West: again and again, cos:sine is the value pair of yin/yang dimensions
>>of benchmark aspect and it's non(e), defining total sum of the whole.
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples

KC

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  • Posts: 491
Re: HFP8 / Slippery8 / T.A.L.K. proving self over time as rest have done
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2022, 07:31:26 AM »
Have worked this Quick8 some, very slick ty, again(add to list) .

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i think the capture of the seam/BE is more vertical rack like w/some nip loop finishing in Quick8.
vs. HFP8 more nip loop, capstan arc, nip loop as to be more Bowline-esque in strategy
(along with same terminal eye utility as Bowline for both of these).
Drawing longer in Quick8 than wider in HFP8.
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In either case, great knots!
Noting always go thru over the most rigid X (of 2 possible) that contains the most rigid SPart in the fig8 as a framework ridden.
>>as reeve the Bitter End(BE) thru over said X in fig8 to capture BE/seam.
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Visually seems to demand end run limiter/stopper, never a bad idea;
but in actual usage very positive hold.
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To same utility of adjustable end/terminal eye;
these vs. Adjustable Hitch eye, or other Friction Hitch/Prohgrip(Blake's) to same end(so to speak)?
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previous pic failure of how quick can make Quick8 from slipped fig8. by adding 1 more tuck...





« Last Edit: July 24, 2022, 12:27:49 PM by KC »
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed" -Sir Francis Bacon[/color]
East meets West: again and again, cos:sine is the value pair of yin/yang dimensions
>>of benchmark aspect and it's non(e), defining total sum of the whole.
We now return you to the safety of normal thinking peoples

Dan_Lehman

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  • Posts: 4277
Re: HFP8 / Slippery8 / T.A.L.K. proving self over time as rest have done
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2022, 07:27:32 PM »
Note the the Quick8 can have the tail tucked out
between the eye legs --something I'd insist upon
for use qua tie-in eye knot.  This extension can
also bring added slack-security (at least in rope
flexible enough to turn & bear down upon the S.Part).

THIS extension was what I had tested (EK in both
ends of a single test specimen --one survivor)
in 12-strand urethane?-coated NERopes Dyneema
(SK-75, I think).  It doesn't show much slippage,
to my eye, but maybe more than I give credit to;
it did break, afterall (at no great value --35%?).

And --curse you!  >:(   ;D --I see that the Q8 tail
can be taken around the F8 part to make an OH.
And ... damn, now I've one more literally "tied-up"
bit of play rope which I must refrain from re-tying
until I put ink to paper for the record of this
--which knot *tangle* allows some interesting
ideas with fore<->aft-ing the structure (i.e.,
fuse S.Part & tail into eye; cut original eye to be
new S.Part & tail).

[yeah, trying out ' S.Part ' (incl. '.') for size]

(-;
« Last Edit: October 25, 2023, 07:56:24 PM by Dan_Lehman »

 

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