Author Topic: Name this knot  (Read 1336 times)

Mike Roberts

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Name this knot
« on: December 17, 2021, 11:02:31 AM »
Hi all, Im wondering if anyone has come across this knot before and if it has a name?

I discovered this knot while playing with variations of the Alpine butterfly.
I have looked extensively online and I have been a rock climber, caver and rope access technician for many years and I've not seen this variation before.
It is a good multi directional loading knot and quite easy to tie although perhaps limited in its uses apart from in technical rigging solutions if tested strength is compatible. If anyone can help identify this knot or if it is possibly a new knot and would like further photos to see how i tied it I would be pleased to oblige.
Many Thanks

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Name this knot
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2021, 09:13:04 PM »
> I discovered this knot while playing with variations of the Alpine butterfly.

It's hard to discern your small photo image,
but it looks as though you've got** a novel
variation on Ashley's #1408 (which could
be regarded --his ends joint-- as a symmetric
"butterfly".
[** 2nd look, well, I guess you've not improved things
to 1408 but have done what I describe with the butterfly
--the SPart collars are crossing OVER on both SParts,
vs. one over & other under, as for #1408.]

Working with bights like this hadn't occurred to me,
though I've something similar, absent the small eye
opposite the longer pair that you show.

Good show!

 :)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 09:15:59 PM by Dan_Lehman »

Dennis Pence

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Re: Name this knot
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2022, 11:09:53 PM »
With regard to Reply #1, the relationship between the Bowline (with a decreased loop) [which can be found in The Outdoor Knots Book, by Clyde Soles, The Mountaineers Books, 2004 where it is called a Bowline Stopper Knot] and the Ashley Stopper Knot is also mentioned in The Everything Knots Book, by Randy Penn, Adams Media, 2004.  There on page 58, Penn writes, "An alternative way to tie this knot (which he calls the Oysterman's Stopper) is to make a Bowline Loop (see Chapter 6), made so small that it is right up against the knot. It will be facing the wrong way, but can be reversed if, while there is still a bit of slack, the center is pulled through the middle by bracing the knot and pulling on the running end. This reversal is called 'capsizing.'"  You can also see the connection if you look at what Ashley calls the Hawser Bowline [ABoK #1014], which is a method which is as close as Ashley gets to the Bowline tying method that goes by many names (Rapid Method, Boy's Method, etc.) beginning with a loose Noose. In the Rapid Method the "capsizing" mentioned by Penn goes the other way to turn a loose Ashley Stopper Knot into a Bowline.

With regard to Reply #2, Ashley himself gives two ways to "double" [ABoK #526] which is now generally called the Ashley Stopper Knot.  The first [ABoK #552], I find is the easiest to tie and tighten.  Ashley does not give tying instructions, but this is essentially what Dan might be describing when he talks about "doubling" the Overhand part of the Ashley Stopper Knot.  When tightening [ABoK #552], follow Dan's suggestion to tighten the Overhand Part (now doubled) first before tightening the part with the free end that goes through the Noose. The second [ABoK #553] is more difficult to tie and tighten.  Again, Ashley does not give tying instructions, but they can be worked out by following his diagrams.  Either of these two "enhancements" of the Ashley Stopper Knot should work well in Dyneena.  I have more detailed tying instructions for these two "doublings" of [ABoK #526] if anyone is interested.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2022, 11:13:41 PM by Dennis Pence »