Author Topic: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot  (Read 3175 times)

Kost_Greg

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Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« on: January 13, 2022, 06:03:02 PM »
There have been some references about the blimp stopper knot in this forum.

All one has to do is to feed the working end through the blimp, closed form, nipping structure, for the adjustable variant, or to tie the blimp with a bight (for the fixed loopknot variation, third fourth image).

It appears that this nipping component fulfills these two requirements ....

1. to block the tail movement

2.to untie/adjust easily after heavy loading

It certainly features a Zeppelin-like look, i should really hope it functions as one,  too  :D.

The fixed loop variant has a rather bulky footprint, and i guess it has to be loaded from both Sparts concurrently, for best performance.

The follow through tying method might be quite challenging as well.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 07:05:40 PM by Kost_Greg »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2022, 11:45:57 PM »
The fixed loop variant has a rather bulky footprint, and
...
... is a fig.8 knot with twinned ends of both
end brought back through the knot.  And, yes, it
does have that zep-like look!  (and try it w/tape?!)

(-;

Kost_Greg

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2022, 08:26:01 PM »
The fixed loop variant has a rather bulky footprint, and
...
... is a fig.8 knot with twinned ends of both
end brought back through the knot. 

Indeed, nice way of forming it Dan, provided that one has access to the SPArts!

You also gave me a brainwave of retucking one of the Sparts (doesn't matter which, it is kind of symmetrical) back through the stopper knot to get an unknotted (TIB) structure.

Just pull up the two ends, and you'll get a fresh, TIB, two wrap, hitch.

Sorry ain't got any photos right now, but you get my point  ;).
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 08:29:21 PM by Kost_Greg »
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Kost_Greg

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2022, 06:28:34 PM »
This time i have curved the returning line, by inserting it first through the Spart crossing knot (i want the first contact with SP), and next through the out-going crossing knot of the blimp structure (first two images).

The returning structure, takes the form of a bight, in contrast with the previous straight line approach. A test between these two techniques, showcased more stability at the bight method, because the other one slipped a bit, before the equilibrium point came through.

Some would argue about the adjustability, but i think it would be an easy task to bend both collars and easily adjust the bight legs.

Tucking the WE under SP one more time, the bight takes the form of a loop and the knot transitions to a more fixed form (third, fourth image).

A zep like nip, a carrick like toggle stabilizator and the knot gets practical with no jamming issues.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2022, 07:04:06 PM by Kost_Greg »
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Dan_Lehman

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2022, 09:36:42 PM »
This time i have curved the returning line,
by inserting it first through the Spart crossing knot (i want the first contact with SP),
and next through the out-going crossing knot of the blimp structure (first two images).

The returning structure takes the form of a bight, in contrast with the previous straight line approach.
A test between these two techniques showcased more stability at the bight method,
because the other one slipped a bit, before the equilibrium point came through.
...
IMO there is much knotting in the SPart for dubious benefit,
and way too little of the Returning Eye Leg's part in finishing
the knot for serious/critical use --use where "stuff happens"
is a consideration.  (I know of plenty of eye knots where the
SPart does wonderful sure-gripping stuff, but I still worry that
the SH consideration must guide one to a greater involvement
by the RELeg-Tail piece!
E.g., though, yeah, I'd use the less "SH-proof" variation,
consider an eyeknot with SPart forming a strangle into which
the RELeg works an OH; SPart thus does some tail-holding both
fore/aft of itself.  OTOH, if the SPart forms the lesser-knotted
structure (OH) and the RELeg makes a strangle through/around
IT, well, it's maybe harder to see that eye knot coming loose
("maybe" in that if the first case is rather near 100% sure,
there's not much topping that).  There are better cases than
this one; this is one case I've played with in recent years,
though in nothing remotely "serious".)

--dl*
====

Kost_Greg

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2022, 05:12:45 PM »
Quote
IMO there is much knotting in the SPart for dubious benefit,
and way too little of the Returning Eye Leg's part in finishing
the knot for serious/critical use --use where "stuff happens"
is a consideration.  (I know of plenty of eye knots where the
SPart does wonderful sure-gripping stuff, but I still worry that
the SH consideration must guide one to a greater involvement
by the RELeg-Tail piece!

Not so dubius benefit, i believe, if you consider this blimp  "much knotted" structure, as a non-jamming stopper knot,  which, IMO, is a great aspect.

Things change a bit, when one of the ends is designated as the SPart for eyeknot development, but think of the two overhands, as two combined closed forms sharing a common line (bridge) that is being nipped by both SPs shear forces (zeppelin property).

Considering, also, that the on going tension is smoothed and absorbed by the on going collar, (see the difference with the zeppelin loop where there is more  straightforward, nipping, on going action, which at some point, is going to jam the overhand nipping component), the two overhands cinch only from one end, while the other one (the bridge) is almost deactivated.

With respect to "stuff happen " situations, i have included a gradual returning structure involvement, by inserting returning toggles/hinges, from straight line to loop.

I could certainly add more returning knotting, even a tail stopper, but since it works, i prefer to keep it in the simplest level!

I clearly see your point of pushing the complexity to the returning level, but this is a reverse scenario that actually works.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 07:56:44 PM by Kost_Greg »
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Kost_Greg

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2022, 04:51:01 PM »
Following Dan Lehman's suggestion, i reversed the process by stabilising a simple nipping loop with a blimp returning structure, or in simple words creating a bowline  ::)!!

It appears to be an easy task if one examines the last two knot structures at reply#3, where instead of tucking under SP, the WE is driven down through the collar, side by side with SP (non-TIB).

This time , i think all the work is done by the nipping loop, which completely counteracts the nipping action of the two blimp overhands, but as much as i love bowlines, i also give credit to the reverse approach too (last two images).
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 04:53:36 PM by Kost_Greg »
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mcjtom

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2022, 12:35:01 PM »
All one has to do is to feed the working end through the blimp, closed form, nipping structure, for the adjustable variant

I tried this (the first idea of an adjustable blimp loop), and I'm almost sold.  Even though it seems that the loop slips more easily than the Slippery Eight loop, I figured that this may be a good replacement for the Eskimo Bowstring Loop [1019,1020], which is quite useful as it is adjustable/lockable after tying, but jams a bit too easily (the slipped version less so, but still).

I just wish that there would be a faster way of tying it from what I'm doing now (i.e. make the Gnat, flip to the Blimp form, than insert the tail through it, and then finish with a locking half-hitch), but maybe I'm doing it not the most efficiently...

Kost_Greg

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Re: Abok #582 (blimp) based, adjustable (and fixed) eyeknot
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2022, 02:24:30 PM »
Quote
I tried this (the first idea of an adjustable blimp loop), and I'm almost sold

Ι'm quite sold with the fixed loop structure! Despite the appearing complexity, there is no reduntant component, every single turn has its own purpose.

The overhands are completely neutralized by nipping loop's constriction power, while at the same time, you can cinch the knot from the returning eye leg and the tail, as much as you want, with absolutely no risk of jamming the overhands, by virtue of the blimp, jam proof, mechanism. For me, this is an amazing property, that bumps up this particular geometry.

Quote
I just wish that there would be a faster way of tying it from what I'm doing now (i.e. make the Gnat, flip to the Blimp form, than insert the tail through it, and then finish with a locking half-hitch), but maybe I'm doing it not the most efficiently...

Indeed, this is another way of forming the blimp directly from shrinked gnat! If you continue flipping the collars, you will come across to another jam proof stoper knot, that i have used as returning structure, knotted on the standing part of the rope (munter noose/hitch).
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