Author Topic: Hacking the figure of eight  (Read 1457 times)

Kost_Greg

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 389
Hacking the figure of eight
« on: December 04, 2022, 02:06:24 PM »
The idea is to create a two entangled, crossing knot form of the figure eight, which appears to be less prone to jamming, than a conventional eight scheme.

The first phase is to flip one of the collars of the clasical 8 for the lowermost, first image formation, as i have pointed out in other threads too.

The second, more advanced step, is to insert the proper bight toggle, through this very 8-form, to showcase this particular, crossing knot geometry (uppermost, second,third image). No slippage occured with this loading option, with a rather easily adjusted returning structure, and no jamming issues.

The EEL quality emerges, if we denature the returning bight into a loop, by tucking WE back through the collar as usually.

Although not TIB, this reversed 8-based bowline (fourth image), has actually three rope diameters inside the nipping loop, with two returning collars that are easy to handle after heavy loading.
Going knots

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4283
Re: Hacking the figure of eight
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2022, 06:42:24 PM »
The idea is to create a two entangled, crossing knot form of the figure eight,
 which appears to be less prone to jamming, than a conventional eight scheme.
I'd go for more of a two turNip'd base vs. crossing knot.
Note that from the mid-flype geometry of the fig.8, one
can finagle by copious dressing the mid-line eye knot
briefly featured in the recently posted-about Butterfly
knot
testing (where this is-at-base-an-8 knot is wrongly
ID'd as #1452 --it is #1408 (and I think Ryan actually
starts one test with #1407).


--dl*
====

Kost_Greg

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 389
Re: Hacking the figure of eight
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2022, 09:03:29 PM »
Hey, Dan, deep down i think you liked this bight interweaving with the flipped eight form, as much as i did. ::).

Nice way of restraining efficiently the returning line within the 8 nub (instead of a post or cleat). If i'm not mistaken, this action is called "snubbing the line".

I could picture this bight form that weaves through the crossing knots, as a closed loop, formed with a different rope, and attached in a tensionless way to an anchor without taking any shock load.

Moreover, if one interlaces the stability of a figure eight with the jam resistance of a bowline, the result might be very promising.

As for Mr.Ryan, he did a great work with his butterfly test video, i guess he gained one more rightful subscription  :).

I also learned that heavy BTL loading of the butterfly eye or bend, is not to be trusted.

However, i believe that investigating butterfly's jam resistance, only in BTL loading (and not eye to eye), is half of the work.

Who would expect that the false butterfly would be so strong? :o ::)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 10:09:28 PM by Kost_Greg »
Going knots

Kost_Greg

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 389
Re: Hacking the figure of eight
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2023, 07:52:35 PM »
Anti-janus eight bowline

As a janus bowline enthousiast, i really support the technique of extending the concept of a bowline collar, with a second one that captures the out-going eye leg.

Besides the security enhancement with the additional tail maneuvering, and the three rope diameters inside the nipping loop, there are actually two access points (collars) for nub decompression, after heavy loading.

This is kind of reverse approach (anti-janus), starting first with the eye leg collar formation, and then continuing with the rest of the conventional maneuvering, collaring the SP.

It's like forming a two times bowline, first an anti-bowline, then normal, at the same configuration.

One of the strongest bowline structures i have come accross, much stronger than the conventional janus bowlines, but yet rather manageable at slackening after hard strain i suppose.

Thinking in reverse, i think it might be another decent way to stabilise a flipped eight (anti-8), with a simple loop returning structure, as it was demonstrated in the OP.
Going knots

alana

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
  • knot fever, knot fever
    • knots a.f
Re: Hacking the figure of eight
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2023, 02:54:37 AM »
... these are knots i have to get my mind around,
but i have an aunty Janice, so i'll remember the name


Kost_Greg

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 389
Re: Hacking the figure of eight
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2023, 02:01:15 PM »
The Janus term, is not of my own invention, i think it was first introduced by Dan Lehman, to define a dual collar component bowline, a quite catchy descriptor, if you ask me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus
Going knots

alana

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
  • knot fever, knot fever
    • knots a.f
Re: Hacking the figure of eight
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2023, 09:34:28 PM »
(oh, now i think it's pronounced 'yarnus' ... ☺)