The Triskel bowline

[Kost_Greg]

I won't risk this knot to get lost in translation, so i'm re-posting it in its own thread with a brand new name.

This time i'm aiming for the cowboy technique, which gives more options for tail maneuvering, along with ring loading stability.

The name is inspired by the word "Triskelion", a neolithic, celtic, triple spiral symbol with rotational symmetry (the ancient Greek meaning is three human bent legs).

Indeed the knot is formed by "a triquetra of  loops" and that's exactly the way it is tied in the bight, with three dicrete S oriented loops (or z loops for the left-handed version), inserted into one another, plus it features three nipping stages which i have shown in another post.

https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=7294.msg47525#msg47525

Normally, i would expect the constrictor form of the returning structure to strangle the core, triggering jamming, but it can only cinch from one end (the bowline collar). Τhe continuation of the other end (tail end), is unders SP's continuous constriction (second nipping stage), so less tension is expected to reach at this level.

In the bight method of tying

1. Form a bight at the end of the rope.

2. Form An S loop on the SPart continuation (nipping loop), and two S loops on the WE continuation.The one close to the tail end is designated as the on going eye leg collar, while the other one close to the bowline eye, is designated as the conventional bowline collar.

3. Pass the nipping loop up through the eye leg collar.

4. Pass the bowline collar down through the nipping loop.

5. Last move is to feed the eye up through the collar and flip this very collar to encircle both ends, dress and cinch.

Bouncing with body weight with a small diameter rope, induced no jamming, but i'm directing an earnest request to Alan Lee (or anyone else with the appropriate equipment) to test this very promising knot structure, with EN rated climbing rope.

[enhaut]

Kost_Greg

You had an excellent idea in your reposting this knot, somehow I missed it and now I am thankful for the effort you made in this presentation and for this concept you had in store for us.

It is a great educational tool, meaning a child could tie it in the bight and have fun doing the steps you propose, learning a lot in the process.

This TIB bowline will be very, very hard to jam because both access that I point out in the picture below are already in a jam resisting configuration (encompassing 2 rope diameter).

It is my take anyway.
Thanks for this knot.
ps.Salutation to Xarax hiding behind his pipes.

Image = Cinched-form

Image = Easy-to-untie

[Kost_Greg]

Thanks Enhaut for your valuable remarks that i forgot to mention in my opening post.

This TIB bowline will be very, very hard to jam because both access that I point out in the picture below are already in a jam resisting configuration (encompassing 2 rope diameter).

I also have to add two aditional access points for the knot decompression, the bight (the curving rope segment between the two collars), whose both legs are being clamped, one by the nipping loop and the other by the SPart, and the on going eye leg collar, whose continuation is under SP's continuous constriction.

Moreover, the knot appears to maintain a rock solid, stable response, when subjected to cyclic loading/slack shaking strains, which is rather exceptional for a bowline encompassing 2 rope diameter inside the nipping loop, as you correctly point out.

The reason i chose the cowboy technique, is some sort of three line, light constriction effect that takes place when the tail is tucked under SP (it grasps firmly if cinched properly, it doesn't fall apart) but the knot is pushed out of the bowline zone (first image).

Anyhow, the bight is locked by the working end coming back through it, but it is this first stage that provides an inceptive level of security. This can't be done with the" tail inside the eye" variant.

Of course the first image knot is not to be trusted in this form, so a collar and a second visit down through the nipping loop would make things better (second image).

I suppose this doesn't qualify as a bowline by definition, but it is rather a knot with two collars, (fontus-like) where their common leg/line is being constricted in the way i displayed.

Ι understand you are probably left handed, but many thanks for your right hand oriented, good looking images.

[Kost_Greg]

An alternate title for this thread would be "How to convert the jammy Angler's knot into a perfect bowline".

Second, " in the bight" method of tying the Triskel bowline

The first stage of this method is to form the Angler's knot.

1. Form a crossing knot with at twisted bight. The twisted bight, is designated as the Angler's collar encircling both eye legs.

2. Enlarge the collar of the crossing knot to form a second bight. The left bight/collar of the crossing knot is designated as the Angler's eye.

3. Wrap the tail around the two bight configuration.

4. Pass the left bight, down through the right one, dress and cinch and the Angler's knot appears.

These four steps are precised in the first two images.

The second stage is to form the Triskel, directly from the Angler's knot.

5. Fold the Angler's eye over the two ends.

6. Pull the on going eye leg of the Angler's knot, to break down the overhand revealing the Triskel bowline (third fourth image).

[Dan_Lehman]

An alternat[ive] title for this thread would be "How to convert the jammy Angler's [Loop] into a perfect bowline".

By tail-loading it --presto!   
Though the dubious stability of that knot
will motivate one to find some securing structures,
such as a simple wrap & tuck --securing further,
but losing endless tying (aka TIB).

Hmmm, maybe making an extra wrap of the
would-be Angler's Loop tail, to give a doubled
nipping turn for the reverse-loaded knot ... .

--dl*
====

[Kost_Greg]

An alternat[ive] title

I had the impression that the word alternate was a legitimate term if used as an adjective before a noun, according to my dictionary, but probably you know better as a native English speaker. Somehow, i know the "alternative" term, as a music genre from the nineties .

Hmmm, maybe making an extra wrap of the
would-be Angler's Loop tail, to give a doubled
nipping turn for the reverse-loaded knot ... .

IMO, you don't really need an extra wrap of the Angler's loop tail for the reversed loaded knot.

I haven't mentioned anything about this reverse scenario, because the constrictor form of the returning structure would be fully activated, which at some point would probably induce jamming.

If the constrictor, is able to restrain a bight (first two images), constricting one of its legs, imagine what it can do to a nipping loop, if loaded in reverse as you propose, so there is no need for extra complexity at this level.

To make it clear, this knot (flying Triskel), can be derived from the tugboat A/flying bowline (third image), in the same way i displayed in my previous reply with the Angler's/Triskel, "in the bight", correlation, or by replacing the nipping loop with just a simple bight, according to the first TIB tying method in my opening post.

Provided that the knot is cinched perfectly, is the returning mechanism capable of restraining the bight and prevent SP slippage, if the knot is loaded from the bight side?

The bight has the tedency to open its legs  , and the on going strain wants to pull the tug end out of its nest, but it can't really outcompete SP's nipping power that grips firmly its continuation.

More studying and testing is what this knot structure needs.

[Dan_Lehman]

An alternat[ive] title

I had the impression that the word alternate was a legitimate term if used as an adjective before a noun, according to my dictionary, but probably you know better as a native English speaker. Somehow, i know the "alternative" term, as a music genre from the nineties .

Since 1963's "Webster's 3rd New Int." took a descriptive vs. prescriptive
bent (contrary the big thick 1934 New Int. 2nd), one has the sometimes
odd bit where distinctions are lost to common ignorance of them, and
those seeking dictionary guidance end up following usage by those
who don't! 

With two adjectives --"alternate" & "alternative"-- it is best IMO to keep
them from being synonymous (why 2, then),
and their respective connotations be of back'n'forth (alternate)
and options (alternative) --this latter vulnerable to requiring,
really at least two cases : the one, and the then alternative one.

 

Hmmm, maybe making an extra wrap of the
would-be Angler's Loop tail, to give a doubled
nipping turn for the reverse-loaded knot ... .

IMO, you don't really need an extra wrap of the Angler's loop tail for the reversed loaded knot.

As for the tail-loaded Anglers loop not needing the 2nd
wrap, I think it a bit problematic to ensure stability of
that single-turn form.  (Fore<->aft'ing :: cutting old
eye into S.Part/Tail, and fusing old ends into new eye,
one as in one case the John Smith Single BWL on a Bight.)

--dl*
====