Author Topic: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO  (Read 959 times)

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« on: April 03, 2023, 09:00:55 AM »
An instructional video on climbing knots from HowNot2.  No attitude, dogmas, or horn-blowing - well-presented, simply discussed, and squarely focused on passing the experience for the audience's selection and benefit.  I like it.

https://youtu.be/ytowtsccKSo
« Last Edit: April 03, 2023, 09:01:52 AM by mcjtom »

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2023, 01:31:16 PM »
An instructional video on climbing knots from HowNot2.  No attitude, dogmas, or horn-blowing - well-presented, simply discussed, and squarely focused on passing the experience for the audience's selection and benefit.  I like it.

https://youtu.be/ytowtsccKSo



" ***Note: At 11 minutes it is a Smith Lock Backup, not a Scott's Lock Backup on the bowline."    <<<   Kind of disingenuous. I personally can't see the difference...

Kost_Greg

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 399
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2023, 06:14:02 PM »
An instructional video on climbing knots from HowNot2.  No attitude, dogmas, or horn-blowing - well-presented, simply discussed, and squarely focused on passing the experience for the audience's selection and benefit.  I like it.

https://youtu.be/ytowtsccKSo



" ***Note: At 11 minutes it is a Smith Lock Backup, not a Scott's Lock Backup on the bowline."    <<<   Kind of disingenuous. I personally can't see the difference...

Apparently, this seems to be a case in which the information has been passed incorrectly, but not intentionally i believe, anywise it's a great instructional video.
Going knots

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2023, 04:14:57 AM »
There may be a reason why Ashley tried to number the knots... :⁠-⁠).

It's a neat knot, but somewhat obscure - thanks to the quality and popularity of HowNot2 material it may become better known, and that's a good thing.

Scott will be pleased to know that his knot is referred to as 'Bowline with Safier Tuck' in this paper:

International Journal of Mountaineering and Climbing, 2021, 4(2), pp. 43-59, Fig. 14.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 01:52:35 AM by mcjtom »

agent_smith

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1513
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2023, 02:40:16 AM »
The 'instructional' video contains several errors.
If you are intending to publish to the world - you have an obligation to exercise due diligence and to do your fact checking to get the content correct.
Viewers of the content likely assume the presenters are 'experts' (ie very knowledgeable and very skilled practitioners) - and so they assume the information is accurate.


Scott's locked Bowline is remarkable - and it is an example of Scott's creative genius (in my view).
The notional concept of tail length (and what to do with it) is irrelevant as purported by the presenter in the video.
Scott's locked Bowline puts 3 rope diameters inside the 'nipping loop' - which increases its radius.
Fundamentally, there are 4 different 'Scotts locked Bowlines' - one of which is 'TIB'.

The are lots of examples of online content creators and knot book authors who publish incorrect information - and thus spread misinformation.
Left leaning commentators might make the claim that the errors were not intentional.
And that is a misplaced viewpoint.
One video published to the world can be the seed from which misinformation spreads... intentionally or otherwise.

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2023, 04:56:46 AM »
They invite comments.

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4308
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2023, 07:21:54 PM »
Firstly, to the cited HowNot2 video on many knots,
one thing coming to mind, as Ryan asserted that
my & Wright&Magowan's dressing of the Butterfly
knot "doesn't matter" is that (1) the testing done
on this has been less than rigorous, and esp. (2)
their testing has used just some few ropes (of a type);
beyond this is that implicitly "matter" is meant for
knot strength per their testing, but there are other
aspects of a knot that matter more than this sort
of it-should-never-get-CLOSE-to force in strength.
AND, if I read/heard it correctly, he asserted that
the Butterfly always unties/pulls-through and NOT
breaking, loaded qua end-2-end joint; but the Czech
folks, who did MANY samples (in 10mm low-elongation
rope), I think had only breakage, NOT slippage!?

There may be a reason why Ashley tried to number the knots... :⁠-⁠).
He didn't : he #'d IMAGES, of which there are 3,858
--counting one *invisible* one ("... got lost").  (#3854
is last, but to this come a trio with "1/2" suffixes and
in later editions the infamous "1425a".)  Many of these
images are not of knots; many knots have multiple
images & hence associated #s (take a gander in the
Index for, say, "Clove Hitch" and you'll find many pages
cited, many of which have images; there are also some
few pages missed in this list with images.
(I made an image#-by-image# review & counting of
ABoK, tired of the decades of mindless claims of
"Over/nearly 3,800, 3,900, 4,000 knots/nudos/..."
This supposed hoped-to-be international authority
on knotting shouldn't be so woefully mistaken of
the knot work it claims as its "bible" !)

Quote
Scott will be pleased to know that his knot is referred to
 as 'Bowline with Safier Tuck' in this paper:

International Journal of Mountaineering and Climbing, 2021, 4(2), pp. 43-59, Fig. 14.

Thanks for noting this paper!
Scott might be just a "pleased" with that moniker
as am I with "Dble BWL with Lehman Tuck" for what
is I think everywhere (of few "where"s) otherwise
named "End-Bound Dbl.BWL (EBDB)"!??  Why does Rob
not use the given names.  --noting that immediately
after showing/re-naming my "Dbl BWL..." he gives
the very un-End-Bound item but with yet a different
name : "Dble.knotted or Round-turn BWL" ?!?
Egadz.
(That said, "end-bound" I must admit is a quite general
descriptor --equally apt for Scott's (with end binding) Lock.
"Tail-wrapped" comes to mind, despite "EBTWB" is quite
the mouthful to pronounce (at least for one English speaker).   ::)
Frankly, knot-naming is just a tough task.  In the knowledge
of most users there are some few knots that are referred to
--maybe just a few, a handful, a dozen or two--; getting
different-enough names for them is not too tough.  But
trying to deal with the myriad variations & other knots ...,
is not at all easy; there can be significant effects of dressing,
and ... !  <sigh>

Btw, I note that Rob presents a supposed "BWL capsizing".
IMO, this transformation which comes by snagging the
Tail for brief tail-loading and capsizing thus is hardly
a probable behavior/situation; moreover, in some
cases were it to occur, upon release of the snagged
Tail & capsized knot one has one of the starting
states for a quick-tie BWL and ... the capsizing
is reversed, BackToBWL it goes!

The more likely --and seen in actual-factual reality,
in commercial trawler thick dock lines-- capsizing
is that of the turNip "going helical" enough
to put most of the BWL knotting into the Tail,
forming a Pile Hitch of it around the S.Part
--"Pile H. Noose".  (My sense of what helps
this to occur is highly frictive cordage, and
perhaps some occasional, tide-flow shifting
of the eye's angle to the pile such that one
leg of the knot gets more, the other less, force!?)

NB : I SEE THAT THE ARTICLE HAS CONFUSED/MIS-PLACED
CAPTIONS & IMAGES ::

FIG. 3 & 4 >> TEXTS << BELONG WITH
FIG.5 & 6 >>images<<;
... and vice versa.


--dl*
===
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 08:10:02 PM by Dan_Lehman »

Kost_Greg

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 399
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2023, 12:12:54 AM »
A comment such as, " left leaning commentators", from a strictly knotting perspective, might be associated with progressivism and new ideas brought in the knotting concept, in contrast with a rather conservative knotting ideology, associated with the source from which this very comment originally came from.

However, if it literally carries a clear political connotation, towards any forum members, then it is at least characterised as nonsensical and completely irrelevant to the original post, breaking certain rules of forum policy, so i'm leaving it to the moderators.

In fact, they (the mods) have to explain, what sort of immunity is this that some individuals think they are enjoying, when they are allowed to launch such, out of bounds, comments.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 12:21:32 AM by Kost_Greg »
Going knots

SS369

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2023, 03:32:24 AM »
A comment such as, " left leaning commentators", from a strictly knotting perspective, might be associated with progressivism and new ideas brought in the knotting concept, in contrast with a rather conservative knotting ideology, associated with the source from which this very comment originally came from.

However, if it literally carries a clear political connotation, towards any forum members, then it is at least characterised as nonsensical and completely irrelevant to the original post, breaking certain rules of forum policy, so i'm leaving it to the moderators.

In fact, they (the mods) have to explain, what sort of immunity is this that some individuals think they are enjoying, when they are allowed to launch such, out of bounds, comments.

As the Moderator, I feel that each poster has the right to speak about their views, in their own words. As long as it is civil and above board. No one individual has "immunity" and all are expected to use kind sincerity with regards to another's post. Doesn't always happen, but, we should try our best.
Before any" demanded" action be considered, I feel it should be allowed for whomever to get the chance to respond, (or edit) if they care to.

SS

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: HowNot2 on climbing knots VDO
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2023, 05:34:29 AM »
An instructional video on climbing knots from HowNot2.  No attitude, dogmas, or horn-blowing - well-presented, simply discussed, and squarely focused on passing the experience for the audience's selection and benefit.  I like it.

https://youtu.be/ytowtsccKSo

A write-up on the VDO:

https://www.hownot2.com/post/bigwalls-knots