Author Topic: Rope Zip Ties  (Read 4920 times)

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Rope Zip Ties
« on: May 18, 2023, 11:04:25 AM »
The Constrictor can be used as a 'Ziptie' of sorts on convex objects.  Here are two other constructs of roughly similar usability.

https://youtu.be/m0dvCvUIbxA
https://youtu.be/W-YX3-zYno0

The Corned Beef knot (#191) can serve a similar purpose and uses mechanical advantage when tightening.

Are there other notable constructs in similar vein?


p.s.  Here is another idea.  The Jam hitch (#1727) is supposed to do something similar to zipties but it never worked for me.  This hitch is analogous to the Midshipman #1730 except that the two wraps are tied outside the loop and the half-hitch inside it.  The idea being that the Midshipman should resist the loop becoming smaller under tension but the Jam aims at resisting ring loads or enlargement of the loop, just like Zipties.

Knicknack introduced the the AYU hitch which has similar functionality to the Midshipman, but it bites better.  By analogy to the Midshipman-Jam relationship I reversed the tying direction in the AYU hitch and it seems to work relatively well.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 12:24:41 PM by mcjtom »

wysper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2023, 09:32:51 PM »
Depending how much "resistive holding" you would like you could always try the gleipner.

https://daveroot.neocities.org/knots/Knots_Miscellaneous#Gleipner

A search of the forum here will come up with lots on this one.
I have used it successfully for many things but it would depend on the application.

 


mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2023, 10:27:18 PM »
I find the Gleipnir a little too gimmicky a construct - look ma no hands - don't quite trust it, it creeps, and I find it hard to draw tight.  Kind of in the same category as the Sheep-shank...:⁠-⁠)

I like the method shown in the second video (the Girth hitch holding two tails tucked through it from opposite sides) - probably superior in every way to the Gleipnir...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 06:38:17 AM by mcjtom »

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2023, 11:31:21 AM »
Searching for Gleipnir turns out to be more successful than trying to find Gleipner...:⁠-⁠)

Ruby

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2023, 11:44:06 AM »
I find the Gleipnir ... and I find it hard to draw tight. 
...

usually first draw tight, and then thread working end through it

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2023, 07:59:39 PM »
It looks like forgoing the middle loop in this Xarax creation results in the Constrictor?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 08:00:58 PM by mcjtom »

Ruby

  • Exp. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2023, 12:00:31 AM »
to make it more like a constrictor, you need to keep
the middle loop facing up.

so it is TIB., i.e. it is unknot if slip off the pole

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2023, 08:53:23 AM »
Why bother with extraneous fiddly middle loops if you can simply tie the Constrictor, which cinches easier and holds better, instead? :⁠-⁠)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 01:13:09 PM by mcjtom »

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2023, 08:58:09 AM »
Here are two other ideas for Zipties like binders from this thread:

https://forum.igkt.net//index.php?topic=4763.msg31358#msg31358

The modified Timber hitch in the first image (#1669) seems to work nicely on convex objects, while the one based on the locked Cow hitch not so much... - this is different from the one in the second video in the initial post which works adequately well even in mid-air.

p.s. With the latter construct (2nd. VDO) the tails can be joined with the Overhand/EDK (or have a stopper in each tail) for extra security so that even if it slips it doesn't come undone.  It also could be 'locked' with the first half of the Surgeon's knot.

It really makes a nice ziptie alternative - simple, solid enough, object-independent, easy cinching.

https://youtu.be/W-YX3-zYno0


If this knot doesn't have a name already, how about the Spider Tie? :⁠-⁠)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 05:22:24 PM by mcjtom »

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4376
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2023, 06:14:57 PM »
I find the Gleipnir a little too gimmicky a construct - look ma no hands - don't quite trust it, it creeps, and I find it hard to draw tight.  Kind of in the same category as the Sheep-shank...:⁠-⁠)

I like the method shown in the second video (the Girth hitch holding two tails tucked through it from opposite sides) - probably superior in every way to the Gleipnir...

There are quite secure variations of "sheepshank", so too
might "Gleipnir"
--better generalized to "Dahm's Floating Binders" as a class--
show itself to offer a variety of behaviors --some knots
easier to tie and others more sure of grip.  IMO, though,
it's often best to tie off the binder somehow.

A main problem with the original is that tension into the
nipping/binding loop must come from pulling on ends
a full RT removed from that point --so, much friction
reduces one's tightening force into the nipping loop
(which, as both Xarax & I found, is best oriented
such that its ends come in AWAY from the bound
object (if indeed there is contact at this point;
nice thing is : "floating binder" binds rope-on-rope!),
and not against the object).

So, I looked for a way to have setting force more
directly/quickly feed into the nipping structure,
and thus discovered the general structure shown
with the particularity of a larkshead in the video;
this might be a clove or perhaps better still just
a RT.  I've used this often enough.  (There might
be some gain of security in that the could-slip
tucked ends make right-angle turns through the
central nipping structure, rather than a more
straight-through path, as for a constrictor.

As for the structure in Ashely of the timber h. with RT
of the S.Part (#1669), that can be generalized to be
any eye knot with the RT in the eye --thus, binding
without need for contact to a surface.  Now, used
qua binding structure, one needs to tie of a tightened
such arrangement, with maybe a simple Half-Hitch
(slipped) or overhand, or a HH put around the legs
of the structure like a sheet bend.

--dl*
====

mcjtom

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 274
    • Phototramp.com
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2023, 04:21:55 AM »
This thread shows another video and the images of the construct.  As suggested, an alternative implementation is with round turn instead of the Girth hitch, which bites even better when in tension, but also falls apart easier when not.

https://forum.igkt.net/index.php?topic=7085.msg46806#msg46806
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 04:41:57 AM by mcjtom »

Andreas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2023, 09:10:07 AM »
This thread shows another video and the images of the construct.  As suggested, an alternative implementation is with round turn instead of the Girth hitch, which bites even better when in tension, but also falls apart easier when not.

https://forum.igkt.net/index.php?topic=7085.msg46806#msg46806

read and tie Dans reply on your linked post! and compare to gleipnir.
 

...  seriously MC. you need to tie whats offered before writing junk answers, otherwise more junk in here. noone needs this.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 09:49:44 AM by Andreas »

Andreas

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2023, 09:30:49 AM »
Timber modified further holds more tension.. Additional turn and wrapped towards the host.

Gleipnir with loop down and crossing tails.

Dan_Lehman

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4376
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2023, 05:34:31 PM »
Timber modified further holds more tension.. Additional turn and wrapped towards the host.

Gleipnir with loop down and crossing tails.

The timber h. requires that passage of tension to go
around the hitched object, unless one sets it in the
manner of having it angling a bit off of the ultimate
alignment of tension and so pulls back against the
Tail's knotting to pull that tight; in some circumstances,
one will be able to adjust the knot's axis of tension, so
can do this setting and then wiggle the knot into best
alignment.

The Gleipnir with cross tails can be formed
sans ends so to be put around something; the crossing
of the Tails IMO is more a problem than help, as the
simple nipping loop turn will not begin to cover the
extent of this crossing.  (To tie, form a clove hitch
in and, then bring each loop half around the other
for a half turn, bringing them together on the *opposite*
side from where they were (in clove).)


--dl*
====

wysper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
Re: Rope Zip Ties
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2023, 12:54:58 AM »
This is also an interesting one.
I only came across it last night so haven't really played with it much so can't speak to its effectiveness.
I saw it on the Reddit Knot page.

https://www.reddit.com/r/knots/comments/12vsuk1/how_to_tie_a_rolling_hitch_zip_tie/


 

anything