Now that's the vim and vigor that I was looking for in a comment thread, plus some new nipping loops to play with! Yay! (sorry if my exclamation points were a little loud.)
I can see you're not serious, but I'll indulge you anyway. This will take a while. That's a lot of pics in a short time when I'm short on time. You haven't had a response in a while (a few days? really?) because life requires more from me than checking this board and apparently riling people up with the tiniest of differences of opinion. Sorry.
I'll quote myself, I guess.
I believe that there may be a misunderstanding of the intended purposes for which each person is attempting to create a knot.
I tie my knots only for the purpose of having an all purpose knot for myself (and anyone else who may find it useful), usually for the purposes of tying into my harness, setting top ropes off trees and gear, tying up a boat and occasionally pulling a stump when I have a rope and chunk of carpet but didn't bring the chains. I found it so useful since I haven't been able to bring it to failure of its intended purposes, mostly stability, security, and being always releasable. I keep bringing it up because I don't feel that anyone has actually tested it for its purposes and I see people looking for the qualities that it has.
As for your first knot,
Hi Knotlike,
Can you please analyse my loop below ?
Thanks.
I do love that nipping loop. I stumbled on it while trying, and failing, to find every modification of the 8 as a nipping loop around the time that I found my knot. I found it in my old "on bowlines" text document labeled as "z turn on tail exiting double z turned 8." It is extremely secure for having no further moves to the tail. It locks down quite hard without any tail modification. I never tested that line of nipping loops further, immediately, because they were not PET, and later, because I had found my knot. It does not resist ring loading as well as I would like it to. The collar tightens quite easily and has nothing to restrict it from pulling tight. (the 90 degree turn of the standing end out of the switchback in my knot helps only slightly with this, the locking down into a rock does the rest) If the ongoing eye leg (held only by collar) manages to loosen first and reposition above the standing part "collar" formed by the SP side (non-nipping loop) part of the figure 8, a ring load can partially deform / roll the knot and release the tail quite easily. An End Bound move on the tail prevents this line position switching deformation and helps keep the knot (ongoing line, specifically) locked stiff once lightly loaded. The End Bound of the tail also locks the "twisted collar" "loopback" of the non-nipping loop end of the figure 8 to force a harder bend of the SP to prevent deformation of the collar on ring loading. (harder to roll)
This knot and its crossing lines is harder to untie, despite having the same "pull the collar, feed line, pull the switchback, feed line" release move as my knot. The switchback release does not directly release one of the two nipping loops.
If my gym ever forbade me from removing the figure 8 that everyone leaves on the climber's side of the top rope, I'd be using this bowline form along with the End Bound move for the tail to add a third line through the nipping loops and to add additional security. (or probably just tying in with an 8. It is just top rope, after all, and unlikely to load hard enough to be harder to untie than this knot.)
As for Dan's suggestion of reversing the standing and ongoing eye leg, (I think I read all his non-picture instructions correctly) I don't really like how the doubled line under the collar forms the switchback around the ongoing eye leg. It does add a third line through the primary nipping loop but the ongoing eye leg (and the knot in general) stays incredibly loose when held by its own self in such a way. A slight wiggle after deloading sees the tail free to move, at least in my usual knot tying practice rope (Edelrid Boa Gym 9.8mm)
Alan, I'm not sure why you think I'm trying to read your mind. I understand why you
could like the knot. I made no conclusions about your thoughts. I simply stated (for my own reasons... those stated above) that I didn't like the knot that you said that you liked. That's... not... I... I have no idea why that set you off.
As for "The best climbing harness tie-in knot" out there? Yep. I've tied every one I've ever seen put forth for the purpose hundreds of times. I've used them in the gym. I judge them by my personal tastes (I like the tail ending within the loop for lead climbing and I like them PET, for instance) and I've compared them to all the knots listed as suitable for the purpose in Mark Gommers Analysis papers. I've gone over it and over it. I can tie in and untie more quickly with mine. I can do it blindfolded without having to feel around or question it. I feel more secure with mine every time I feel any looseness with any of the others while climbing. I pull a thousand pounds with my knot and untie it with my hands. I flog it after hand tightening and it doesn't move at all. I ring load it and the collar still feeds the standing line. It is the best that I have found. Do you have another contender that I can play with for a week or two? I'd love that.
My only purpose of joining this forum was to find the best harness tie-in knot. This is the internet. Cunningham's Law applies. Mine is the best.
Nobody has shown me I'm wrong, so I'm starting to wonder.
Anyway, the next time you want me to shut up, it would be much simpler to just say "Hey, KnotLikely. Bug off." or just block me so you don't see my posts. You don't really need to post a bunch of sarcastic nonsense.
I saved the pics. I'll definitely be tying them, someday soon(ish). I won't bother you any more (did my one comment of a single tiny disagreement between my opinion and yours really bother you that much?!?) It is long past time for bed. Don't wait up for me to post again, this time. Thanks.
