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figure 8 sort-of loop, wonder what its name is and if it's stable

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what loop-forming knot is this?
is it stable?

It reminds me of the 'ASCii' Bowline courtesy of Mr Dan Lehman.

The middle image has variations - depending on which way the tail segment is positioned.
Keep in mind that every single knot has a mirror version - so you also view the middle image as its mirror inverse.
Note: When people illustrate or publish knots, they usually don't also show the mirror inverse versions... for example, if knot book authors did this, it would double the size of their publication.

By the way, I still don't know with 100% certainty which version is actually what he was trying to describe (via ASCii code).
Dan isn't known for his camera skills - and in this instance he sent me multiple emails using ASCii code to depict the geometry.
Meanwhile, I kept pulling my hair out and going thinner while trying to reproduce the intended geometry - while being admonished for each failed attempt :)

Anyhow, it appears that the middle image (or a variation of it) might be a close facsimile of what you have presented.


Given that you have not posted in 'new knot investigations', I assume that this is not a claim of originality?

thanks for looking for / finding comparisons,

i was bumbling my way through trying to recall quick8 knots but too lazy to look up the post - which i now have looked up anyway, as to not be even more vague - (KC)

and i should've just done a quick search instead of hair-pulling.

to make a quick end-loop, i have used an unstable loop, the TIB made by starting with constrictor knot then one of the loops pulled through the other,
even though it is stable when pulled in that direction. but yes i could learn and use another more stable knot.

anyway, loop in question is really similar to your pics.
when tightened, there's a little triangle shape,
and triangle shape on both sides if i thread the tall from the other side, though that seemed unnatural to thread it on that side.

presumed not-new

all the best for weekend everyone

Hello Alana here is a quick answer to your questions:

--- Quote ---is it stable?
--- End quote ---
   Ans: Yes, in my view it's very stable.

--- Quote ---what loop-forming knot is this?
--- End quote ---
  Ans: It is the anti-version of Xarax's Samisen bowline.

Have a look at the first image structure, which illustrates one of the Samisen bowline series by Xarax.If this is not familiar to you, then move to the second image structure which is the anti-version of the first, or your knot but in cowboy version, that is to say, with the tail placed outside of the loop (you'll understand later why i have chosen the cowboy version).

When you form a crossing knot, it is feasible to create two anti-versions, by inserting WE from both sides of the nipping structure.

The first is the more popular Cossak knot of third image (in slipped form it's called Kalmyk), and the other is yours or the lesser known anti-Samisen bowline.

So, inevitably, I am obliged to make a comparison between the two of them, as crossing knot based loops and as both anti-knots (they usually capture the out/on-going eye leg instead of the SP).

Which one is better, the Cossack or the anti-Samisen?

Despite its popularity, i personally would bet against the Cossack, because i regard it as an unstable knot.

I do not expect the knot to maintain its original crossing knot form, under heavy stress, it will rather distort to an anti-bowline.This also takes place when the Cossack is ring loaded. Ok, the anti-bowline is considered to be stable, yet the initial crossing knot nip, is transformed to a nipping loop.

On the other hand, your variant,  does not appear to distort and deviate from the crossing knot state, due to the returning, bight structure binding, retaining also a solid ring loading profile.

Dare i say, that the anti-version, might be better than the conventional Samisen bowline, in terms of jam resistance, because it features a collared SP, and the sharp turn is now placed at the on-going eye leg continuation, where less tension is expected, or at least lesser than the SP.

Hi All,
        The first image below is the same as the first knot from my video, both are crossing knot loop.
        The  differences are right and left hand nipping loop, the tying method I have in the video
         make it  easy to understand, easy to tie and have better collars. Make it easy to untie.
         The second image is the same as the third knot from my video. It is crossing knot loop,
         The  differences are right and left hand nipping loop. this one also good method to tie this knot,
         Just start with crossing knot.
   The difference between the first image knot and the second image knot is that the first image
         (with my tying method)has a soft  cushion and a nipping loop is riding on the tail;
         the second image knot, more or less, is a trend self destruction.  Thanks.

 Knots Transformation and Modification Part 2


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