Lee's Super 8 Loop & other nipping structure

[agent_smith]

Hi Alan,
I've attached 2 images showing a 'parent bend' and 2 of its corresponding eye knots.
Its derived from your new presentations at reply #14 above.

Would you be able to test the 'bend' (end-to-end joining knot) please?
Apply some load and see how it responds to increasing load.

And maybe try the second corresponding eye knot - how does it compare to the original?

[alanleeknots]

       Hi Mark, Thanks for your participation and sharing your expertise. I will get a quick fix on my testing device,
                     And get some testing done by this weekend.

[alanleeknots]

                More and more loops, I am getting confuse myself.

[alanleeknots]

              Hi all,
                      Here is a picture of various nipping structures +bight loops, Just like to make it easier
                        to compare the difference between them.

[alanleeknots]

           Hi all,
                   Have more knots here, have an end bound bowline and two bends.
                    They are looking good to me. These two bend may have been tied with it by
                     Master Xarax or y Chan before.
                   In the main time, I was very busy fixing my testing units, all good know,
                       ready to do the testing tomorrow...

[alanleeknots]

          Hi Mark, Here are the test videos. You have a great day.
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LchJYBmBUs
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPC2KL2aUvE&t=104s

[alanleeknots]

      Hi all,
             I tried to look for my knots and accidently found this bend. Yes, it is tied by Master Xarax
             On Feb/2/2010, Xarax may have forgotten.

[Dan_Lehman]

Yes, it is tied by Master Xarax  On Feb/2/2010, Xarax may have forgotten.

And by several others --seems to be a natural occurrence
over the course of one's seeking New Knots!

Cf. https://forum.igkt.net//index.php?topic=2694.0

So far, I take these two like e2e joints back farthest in known sightings,
but who knows what lies yet to be found!?
Test results will be a new measure of them!


(-;

[agent_smith]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for your previous load tests... am still thinking about your results (eg jam resistance).

In relation to reply #21:

I've attached more images of the bends from your above posts and some of their corresponding eye knots.
I had a look at the IGKT link (several pages to read) - but remain unsure of who discovered what...?
There doesn't appear to be a unambiguous/clear statement such as: "I am making a claim that I discovered these knots"
And then a clear reply affirming the claim?
Anyhow, someone will add some clarity...

Anyhow, one of the 'bends' has an interesting geometry - and perhaps some of its corresponding eye knots may be of interest?
Perhaps worth running some more load tests?

[alanleeknots]

 Hi Dan, Mark, thanks for your participation. I have three loops here, which are well
                           secure and solid knots.
                           Had some quick test with 9.5mm dynamic climbing rope.
                           Embrace 8 8 like loop loaded 700 kg and is easy.
                           Embrace 8 8 looped 700 kg, just able to untie.
                           Embrace Overhand knot loop 800kg easy to untie.

[siriuso]

Hi

In relations to Reply #21,22 and 23.

The bend presented by Rusty427 has also been discussed in the below topic at Reply #11 and #15.

Re: Can anybody identify this bend for me?
"Reply #11 on: October 18, 2021 10:56:24 AM"

yChan

[Dan_Lehman]

I had a look at the IGKT link (several pages to read) - but remain unsure of who discovered what...?
There doesn't appear to be a unambiguous/clear statement such as: "I am making a claim that I discovered these knots"
And then a clear reply affirming the claim?
Anyhow, someone will add some clarity...

As noted previously, I discovered the knots sometime
circa 1980s (early).
Jack Reinmann published his like discovery in "Knotting Matters KM43 1993"
(and Geoffrey had sent copy of Jack's claim to me for comment;
I think that I replied and remarked at nice aspects of them).
AND Xarax, Rusty, ... have found their own ways to the knot(s).

It DOES seem a bit odd that Ashley didn't like Jack look
to making a symmetric joint, after he (Ashley) had shown
#1450.  (But then I've never seen anyone besides me
recommend the multiple Lapp Bend, though making the
*multiplicity* is a natural think to do --aka "Dbl." Sheet Bend.

.:.  Jack Reinmann is first (known) to have lifted the knots out of
the shadows into public view; and I might've been --who knows?--
the first one to SEE them, albeit *privately*.  (Note that Jack's
discovery preceded his publicizing --his annotation in ABoK.)
KM#43 1993 (don't have my copy to give month/season); pp. 22/3.
[url]http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/dumpextras/othermags/Other%20Assorted/IGKT/KM43.pdf[/rul]


--dl*
====


ps : Siriuso, I see not "topic below" URL in you citation!?

pps : Ashley's #1451 in reverse (i.e., load tails) is one of the Sym.Hawser Bends.

[siriuso]

Hi Dan

Here is

https://forum.igkt.net/index.php?topic=7092.msg46884#msg46884

yChan

[siriuso]

Hi

Some more,

Crown Bend was mentioned in KM51, page 35 and 36.

For more tying methods of this bend, please visit my folder :

"My Other Tying Methods of Some Known Knots" :
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1C8vtR72jJp9NjHiOR_qA9336We11Jt4g?usp=sharing

Another bend Indian Bridle Bend mentioned in the same page is the same bend as ABOK#781 Two-strand Diamond Knot which can be capsized to ABOK#1452 Ashley's Bend.

Happy Knotting
yChan

[Dan_Lehman]

Mainly, I sense someone having too much concern over
supposed knot-invention dates.  It's not as though a Nobel
hangs in the balance, after all.  There are a lot of knots
in ABoK's 1944 & since light, but which don't register much
of a blip on the knots-in-use-scanning radar now or even then
--maybe only copied in books!?  And some knots --e.g., the
"Reverse Groundline Hitch"-- that are well in use but which
I've yet to see described in any literature (esp. knots books);
it shows a form as a Miller's knot & GLHitch, but the use of
it in wrapping of line around others or a net hem just doesn't
appear.

(Oh, also, I just realized that Hensel & Gretel's Plate 45#311
"Combination Square Knot Hitch" (?) got into KM (sort of)
by GBudworth (in alias Cy Canute at km037:21).  GB presented
a stopper --and it's a good one! (but not copied by anyone,
even GB or his alias John Shaw!?)  H&G presented a
who-can-guess knot, devoid of rationale or loading; it makes
a good hitch & binder around flexible things --essentially
being a Constrictor.)


The date given in my ollllld notebook isn't THAT hard to
decipher :: (in my knot-ID form it's "#19790913h1630"
(1979-09-13, tHursday, 4:30pm).  And this came to me
some month(s) after my "Diamond Bend" referred to on
the righthand side of the page, which IIRC was just a few
months or less prior.

IIRC, the late Owen Nuttall claimed to have discovered
and used these --or maybe ONE of these-- e2e joints
"in the '70s", which pretty well assures us that it was
prior the 9th month of the last year of them!

SO, I'll be happy believing that Owen & I came across
the knots way back when, and that Jack Reimann did
so likely well later but was who brought them to public
awareness via Knotting Matters.  (And some other
knot-universe explorers have also come across them.)
(I might add that I seldom have tied those knots; heck,
even "my" first knot --SmitHunter's Bend (#1425a) has
caused me to pause and re-try on tying it!)


--dl*
===