Author Topic: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot  (Read 607 times)

Dave High

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Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« on: March 09, 2024, 10:08:06 PM »
A few years ago I submitted some still pictures of myself tying this knot but I don't think they were very
good pictures so with my son's help I've made a video of myself tying it.  I would appreciate it if some of
you might tie this knot and give me your opinions of it. I hope I've posted this in the right place.

Thanks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV5aaIyrpZs&list=PLInHxkRfP7zHLa0CdP8ZfA8wjMqsQ4wgN
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 10:28:11 PM by Dave High »
I am primarily interested in practical knots that a merchant seaman would regularly use

DaveRoot

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2024, 12:30:44 AM »
Dave, this looks like one version of the Tugboat Bowline:
http://daveroot.neocities.org/knots/Knots_SingleLoops.html#PerfectionLoop

For a discussion of this and similar knots on this forum, see https://forum.igkt.net//index.php?topic=112.0

Dave Root

Dave High

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2024, 01:21:22 AM »


Thank you for your input Dave.  I've just looked at the Tugboat knot and to be honest with you I'm not seeing a close relationship to it but of course I don't pretend to be an expert and I have not yet tied the tugboat knot and compared the two.  I've used this knot for decades and it's never failed me which has created an emotional attachment to it.  I've been looking for a name for it for decades without success. 
I'm confused as to what's considered a knot with it's own identity vs a knot that's considered a derivation of an established knot and how that is determined and would appreciate any information or links that could point me towards some clarity on this issue.
Did you tie this knot yourself and compare it to the tugboat knot?  I haven't done that yet but am about to do so.  Thanks Dave
I am primarily interested in practical knots that a merchant seaman would regularly use

wysper

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2024, 09:07:25 PM »
Hi Dave,

Watching the video of you tying it makes me think of the double dragon loop, with one less wrap from the working end.
Check it out on animated knots. https://www.animatedknots.com/double-dragon-loop

Cheers
Greg


Dave High

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2024, 11:31:00 PM »

Thank you Greg.  I would like to point out that tying my knot does not involve the use of the bitter end of the line.  Am I wrong to believe that the use or non-use of a bitter end to tie a knot is a determining factor in it's identification?  I'm aware of the term "loop knot" and I think it's obvious that my knot is a loop knot.  If my knot is indeed a loop knot, shouldn't it be compared to other loop knots such as the Alpine butterfly knot for example or am I missing something here?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2024, 11:41:14 PM by Dave High »
I am primarily interested in practical knots that a merchant seaman would regularly use

DaveRoot

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2024, 11:38:50 PM »
Greg, I agree with you that Dave's knot looks like the Double Dragon Loop with one less wrap, which is exactly one of the two versions of the Tugboat Bowline. I referred to it as Tugboat A on my website.

Dave Root

wysper

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2024, 09:14:42 PM »
Hi Dave Root and Dave High,

I played a little more last night with these knots.

Dave High, all of them can be tied in the bight - with out the end of the rope.

Sorry Dave Root, when I looked at the Tugboat I looked at a random youtube vid and not on your site, I think I was slightly led astray.

Dave High, I think your knot is the same as Dave Root's tugboat 1, the difference is in the dressing.
If you dress it just so it looks like the dragon as in DR's website image.

And if you allow the 'collar' to come up higher it then looks the knot in DH's video.

Cheers
Greg

alana

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2024, 10:56:58 AM »
cute loop, i used it today

Kost_Greg

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2024, 06:25:45 PM »
I would like to point out that tying my knot does not involve the use of the bitter end of the line.  Am I wrong to believe that the use or non-use of a bitter end to tie a knot is a determining factor in it's identification? 

Tying or untying a knot without the use of the bitter end, is a distinct knot property which means that the knot is tiable in the bight (TIB), it has nothing to do with its identification.

Besides, there are usually more than one tying methods to form a TIB knot like yours.

For instance, try to form a 1050 harness loop, and just simply rearrange the loop legs. I think you''ll find an identifiable resulting knot.

One might claim, that the anacortes knot or the single dragon loop (correctly identified by Dave root and Wysper), is the midline version of a TIB 1010 bowline, so yes, it could be compared to the Alpine butterfly knot, (as both inline knot structures), as you correctly point out in your reply.

However, tugboat-like knots, are usually loaded as end of line loops, from the crossing knot side, exactly as you show in your video.

I'm of the view, that loading it from the loop side (tail), might be a more resistant to distortion loading technique, especially in heavy stress.
Going knots

Dan_Lehman

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2024, 08:06:33 PM »
  I've just looked at the Tugboat knot and to be honest with you
 I'm not seeing a close relationship to it but of course
 I don't pretend to be an expert and
 I have not yet tied the tugboat knot and compared the two.
?!  It is exactly what Dave Root shows as "Tugboat A"
--how can you not see this (expert or novice) ?!

Such knots (also e.g. Ashley's #1034) can be bolstered
re stability by making a 2nd Tail wrap.


--dl*
====

alana

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2024, 10:53:53 AM »
my friend was on sydney harbour last week and sent a photo of the queen Elizabeth liner docked there
and it made the city ferry next to it look like a tugboat!
maybe to an undiscerning landlubber like myself.

actual tugboat story from brisbane flood 2011


turns out it was a dam release flood

alana

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Re: Hello, I'd like your opinion of this knot
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2024, 12:50:07 AM »
the knot, flattened out, i think

omgosh i turned into alanlee