Name this parcel knot

[JohnC]

I saw this in a parcel tying video and rather liked it because it obviates the need to hold the arrangement in tension while tying the second half of a square knot (and I always lose a bit of tension in the last moment).

It's one piece of string, coloured to emphasize the crossings (a technique I've seen and admired on this site).

Tightened, it's reasonably secure for light handling, but you would want an extra overhand knot drawn tight to make it permanent for actual mailing.

So, do we know what it's called? Is it in Ashley?

Loose:


Tight:

[Dan_Lehman]

it obviates the need to hold the arrangement in tension
while tying the second half of a square knot (and I always lose a
bit of tension in the last moment).

Hmmm, maybe not so fast :: the B&W two ends, yes,
can be relaxed IF the green base to which they'll make
their pretty-darn-clever knotting is itself tight; otherwise,
I think one will have some troubles.  Is the green the
center of the package-binding structure, running away
from view to make right-angle change-of-directions
and reappearing as the B & W ends?

you would want an extra overhand knot drawn tight to make it permanent for actual mailing.

Good point --my feeling also.  (And today I biked around
some give-a-way items to a thrift shop using a kiddie trailer
for the load, secured w/PES pull webbing :: on arriving,
I found that some of the tyings were slackened a bit
--from the shifting of a bound object, I guess.  Good
to have secured them well enough to stay tied absent tension!)

Thanks for this!
(-;

[JohnC]

Is the green the center of the package-binding structure, running away from view to make right-angle change-of-directions and reappearing as the B & W ends?

Yes, exactly that.

As for maintaining the tension, I think it would be a case of "your mileage may vary" depending on the sharpness and hardness of  the corners traversed, and the slipperiness of the cordage.

I've found two immediate uses: I carry a book to my favourite watering hole most evenings, and being congenitally clumsy I carry it in a sturdy kraft paper bag in case I drop it. This is particularly important at the moment because the book I'm reading is borrowed and pristine. However, it occurs to me that the opening, which is just folded over, tends to spring open, and may do so while the bag/book are plummeting towards a muddy puddle. So this fastening, loosely applied is quite adequate insurance, and comes apart easily just by tugging on the two ends before they enter the knot (first pic).

The second thing is a bit odd, and I will have to reveal a fussy habit: I always wrap my rubbish up in newsprint and then put it in a brown paper bag (such as those given away with junk food, curry, etc.) This keeps the inside of the plastic bin from getting too smelly and also if I happen to forget and miss the collection, it will survive another week without stinking out the kitchen (paper = carbon filter). I usually tape it closed with cheap gaffer's tape from the supermarket, but I've noticed that used on paper and under pressure (the rubbish is compressed) it has a tendency to unstick itself. So, cotton twine and the as-yet-nameless knot to the rescue (the tape holds long enough to tie the knot). In this case I've done the extra overhand knot and pulled it tight for security (second & third pics).

In both these cases the tightening acts over the whole length. I have an idea for more difficult cases, which I will reveal in due course.

[Dan_Lehman]

I have an idea for more difficult cases, which I will reveal in due course.

Like quieting hyper-active children?

(-;

[alana]

looking forward to tying up box or bag or parcel with it  📦

it's possible i had a close look at this 😊

collage1
here's the knot, as though tied around a rail [i think]:
1. the knot on a rail
2. the knot slid off the end of the rail and pulled a bit
3. underside
4. it scrunches up / down to this

collage2
i also turned it inside out, to see what happens,
just seeing if it formed a more stable constrictor-type knot.
(it did, but not by much?)
and it scrunches down to this trefoil?

collage3
back to the parcel-y knot - if tied around a rail - it's a near match to ashley book #606,
the way i have tied the parcel-y knot is in mirror image to button knot ABoK#606,
except the ends (parcel) are o,u,o, instead of o,u,u
it's similar but not identical

collage4
if tied as around a parcel:
i tied the knot around a matchbox,
with counter-clockwise elbows link at the back of the 'parcel'
then the ends as per John's pic,
i took it off the parcel,
in an effort to match this button ABOK607 - it didn't happen;
i tied the matchbox again,
with the elbows at the back turned clockwise;
then the ends tied;
then turned inside-out;
i believe it's a match to the ABOK607 3x2 button!
but in mirror яояяiм image

anyway that's my version of events

[JohnC]

Thanks. I will ponder your investigations.

[JohnC]

I reckon it will have a name as a lashing/parcel wrap.

Your transformations and conclusions are impressive, but take us too far from the knot as used.

Even a small change in use often justifies a new name. As it happens, I've been reviewing hitches/loops this weekend (a lot of overlap between those two groups), and I'm struck by how often one knot contains another. For instance:
The poacher's knot is composed of a strangle knot around the standing part. One extra loop and it becomes a scaffold knot.
The buntline hitch is composed of a clove hitch around its standing part.
The lobster buoy hitch is composed of a cow hitch around the standing part.   

[alana]

i did get a bit, or a lot, side-tracked !

but look!

[alana]

is it a gleipnir parcel knot ❓

tied the 'back' counter-clock, pics 'A',
then at the top, tied the ends starting with an over, over the green,
basically as though tying it from the underside, 
i thought it might be easier.
not sure if it is actually easier -
but when tightened, it forms a gleipnir-like riff
... yes?

then the other config with the tie at the back going clockwise,
it forms 'this', pics 'B',
but i'm not sure it's worth anything

(?) so it is showing signs of being a gleipnir for parcels,
but was tied with the nipping loop to the inside

[JohnC]

I had in mind to make the observation that the "original" version (what's in the first post) did remind me of the gleipnir in some ways, specifically:

• It works as a mid-air binder - if you look at the second photo of the first post, the shadows show you that the surface is actually slightly concave (it's the bottom of a twine box and the pressure of the tightened knot has "caved" it in a bit).
• It's two ends entangling a middle piece held taut, and distorting it to create a binding effect on the ends: In the case of the gleipnir, with a loop (or " TurNip" as someone aptly called it), and in the case of this knot, just a kink, but the combined touching surface area is greater - each strand entangles both others firmly - such that this knot is actually slightly harder to undo given the same tightening with the same material.

Of course the main difference that strikes you immediately is the the gleipnir is "in-line", while this knot works on a perpendicular strand.

In the back of my mind I suppose I was wondering if that similarity could be shown more plainly, but I doubt I would have had the wit to demonstrate it so well. 

So (if I may summarise your results), by tying it upside-down and drawing the perpendicular elements into one vertical plane, we either get a gleipnir with a twist behind, or a gleipnir with interlocked bights behind.

* * *

On the question of naming, I've made no further progress, though I have found a couple of videos and one "instructable" using the same knot. It seems to be generally known out in the world, but the people demonstrating it haven't seen it as a knot, as such, but just part of the parcel wrapping demonstration. I even checked all the comments and sadly no one wrote anything like, "Actually that finish knot is called ...".

I have no wish to claim permanent naming rights, but until we find out what it's called, for working purposes, may I suggest the hot cross knot - Easter having just passed, and the top of a hot cross bun looks to me to be tied like a package with this very knot.